tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post1888501406336029710..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Edward II's Death And Afterlife Revisited (2)Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-18370046547384304092013-04-24T15:10:48.874+01:002013-04-24T15:10:48.874+01:00Ian Mortimer did a great job by creating the table...Ian Mortimer did a great job by creating the table you've mentioned. And you did a great job here, on Edward's blog, again :-) As for the manner of Edward's death, I can't quite imagine how the red-hot poker story was to be revealed at parliament. I mean, can you imagine the whole scene? I'm pretty certain that even the contemporaries would have found it ridiculous.Katarzyna Ogrodnik-Fujcikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415905019122111675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-75613308764351069232013-04-19T07:27:55.210+01:002013-04-19T07:27:55.210+01:00Ooops, there was meant to be some punctuation betw...Ooops, there was meant to be some punctuation between 'linked somewhere in this post' and 'it comes from...' :-)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-55875750600195980292013-04-19T07:26:59.468+01:002013-04-19T07:26:59.468+01:00Thank you to all for the comments and for sharing ...Thank you to all for the comments and for sharing your thoughts and insights! I don't think the red-hot poker story is ever going to die, sadly, because it's the kind of thing that people learnt and remember and have never read anything different (I remember in my teens being totally convinced it was true). The idea about 'per cautelam' being mistakenly twisted into 'per cauterium' (branding-iron) is mentioned in my post back in 2006 about Edward's death, that's linked somewhere in this post it comes from Mary Saaler's 1997 biog of Edward, IIRC.<br /><br />Dawn, welcome to the blog, and many thanks! Hope you enjoy your reading, and do please feel free to leave a comment or send me an email any time if you have any questions or comments (the same applies to any reader - it's always good to hear from you, even if you disagree with me :).<br /><br />It somehow seems so typical of Edward II, unconventional and eccentric as he was, that we actually have no real idea how he died in 1327, or even if he did at all, and the overwhelming majority of his contemporaries didn't either. ;) Anerje, very interesting point about the Richard III story, thanks - I've also heard that so many times, and here it is now totally disproved! Sami, like you I find the poker story so implausible for so many reasons.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-4308060471147819532013-04-19T00:48:47.389+01:002013-04-19T00:48:47.389+01:00it looks like this poker thing is popular in certa...it looks like this poker thing is popular in certain circles for reasons that has nothing to do with Edward or his alledged death, but with the ideas of those who keep promoting it. <br /><br />If we consider that this man was big and physically strong, a man who fought at Bannockburn for hours in the middle of the fiercest fighting, I doubt there would have been much of chance to play with hot pokers. <br /><br />If, and there is a very big IF indeed, Edward was murdered at Berkeley he was killed at the quickest and safest way possible. <br /><br />But then again, did he die? All these variations in that story could also indicate that nobody knew for sure simply because nobody had killed him. If he had been killed, by which ever means, there would have been more consistancy in the stories. <br /><br />No matter how many versions you have heard of the death of Richard III, he dies in a same way in all of them. Even Jesse James gets shot in all the stories. That is because there were men who had done those things and people who saw those things happening. <br /><br />But Edward was hot poked, suffocated, died because of grief etc.?Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-29526775415650798502013-04-18T21:40:55.283+01:002013-04-18T21:40:55.283+01:00Amazing article. I am a English History buff and ...Amazing article. I am a English History buff and this was very interesting. I can not wait to read through all your blog articles and learn more about Edward II - while I have read a lot of English royal history, this is an era I am not as well-versed in. Amazing stuff!!!Dawnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-69824438958127739482013-04-18T21:38:36.401+01:002013-04-18T21:38:36.401+01:00Amazing article and even more amazing blog site. ...Amazing article and even more amazing blog site. I am an addicted English History buff (though I am love ALL royal history of various countries/regions, Englis my personal favorite and bulk of my library). I have not read as much about Edward II as I have others in English history and look forward to reading through your blog and following you. Truly hooked now!Dawnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42157490395533109642013-04-18T20:28:49.546+01:002013-04-18T20:28:49.546+01:00Great article. I read somewhere (can't rememb...Great article. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the word that the phrase "cautelam" might have been misread as "per caustelam" or something similar ... which may be the source of the "red hot iron" story. Seriously, I think the doubt around Edward II's alleged murder was probably very helpful to Edward III's emotional well being ... as James I can testify, it is very bad to grow up thinking that your mom helped her boyfriend kill your dad.<br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-64793282234761923522013-04-18T19:21:45.070+01:002013-04-18T19:21:45.070+01:00I always look forward to a Thursday as I know it&#...I always look forward to a Thursday as I know it's your usual blog day:> And you've shared so much of your research in this area - that I'm now a firm believer in the survival of Edward II. I totally discount the 'red hot poker' story - but because it is such a dreadful way to murder someone, it's stuck in people's minds and become accepted as 'the truth'. It's like Ian Mortimer says - tell people Alfred burned the cakes enough times, and it becomes truth.<br /><br />The recent discovery of Richard III's grave has made me think about Edward II's fate - I'd read so many times that Richard's remains were dug up during the time of the Reformation and his bones thrown in the river, with his stone coffin used as a drinking trough. Totally untrue - a myth spun by an enterprising inn-keeper, yet taken as truth by a lot of history books - even though stone coffins had ceased to be used by the time of Richard's burial. All the time he remained where he had been laid to rest. How many other things to we accept as truth without challenging/checking evidence?Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.com