tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post2514836909412275291..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Where Did The King Sleep? Logistics of the Royal HouseholdKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42851973596479155482017-06-09T18:48:57.823+01:002017-06-09T18:48:57.823+01:00@Jerry Bennett:
When ever great lords traveled f...@Jerry Bennett: <br /><br />When ever great lords traveled from their castles to another, their household followed them, including the men-at-arms. Castles had only a skeleton crews standing by unless specially ordered to man them or bigger garrison stationed into one. Even great castles, such as Sandal near Wakefield in Yorkshire, had only few men manning it when the lord was not around so many of them were almost ghost towns/castles. <br /><br />A Famous incident happened when Edward III returned unannounced to London from the Continent. His entourage came to shore to the pier of London Tower in a quiet night but nobody raised an alarm nor noticed anything. The castle was mostly dark and empty so when king eventually found some men from the almost empty Tower, he was understandably annoyed and demanded some high lords to appear in Tower at once to let them hear his displeasure of this. Some almost lost their heads since this was, after all, one of the main residences of the king and was supposed to be manned properly at all times. It is good to remember that Edward III had left most of his household to the other side of English channel and his queen too for this surprise appearance.<br /><br />The reality was that just like in all the castles, there was no full garrison even at Tower of London when the king was absent, unless the queen was staying in there. It is almost shocking to read some huge castle being manned by couple dozen men when not occupied by the lord but that was the reality in many places. The standing crew was just a bunch of gate keepers in many castles and this also one reason why some of them were captured so easily. Thirty men can not man the walls etc. if someone does attack surprisingly. <br /><br />So yes, the king traveled with most of his household, including his chaplains and priests, the great seals (if I do not recall wrongly Edward II had two of them, one for read wax and the other for green) and their keepers, his secretaries and cooks and valets, other servants, bodyguards and sergeants, archers and footmen, larder and other necessary stuff. Only some of his household stayed behind and usually it was a trusted man for some particular reason.<br /><br />If and when the king went to the Continent, he usually named a regent to rule in his absence, who naturally moved in with his own household as the stay-in regent. Naturally they brought their own ways of doing things with them and this caused some friction among those whose responsibility was to provide food etc. to the royal place of residence.<br /><br />The real problem came from the fact that when ever the king visited his lords, they had to be there naturally as good hosts, with their full household, in order to welcome the king and his full staff in a way which was proper. No matter how grand manor or castle one had, pretty soon there was no more room for everyone. Sooner or later servants slept in the stables, hallways and corridors, or even outside or in temporary tents. During the summer this was not a big problem but during the winter... well, let just say that some great lords resided in far away and distant castles and manors for a good reason.<br /><br />One has to remember that the host also always provided the essentials when the royals came to visit so he had to get all the food and fire wood etc. for the whole kingly entourage. King or queen paid some expenses if and when, not nearly always, and very very few men or ladies were bold enough to ask compensation if the king "forgot" to share the expenses.sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59987016383835383882017-06-07T09:15:31.684+01:002017-06-07T09:15:31.684+01:00Jerry, unfortunately I just don't know. I coul...Jerry, unfortunately I just don't know. I could only speculate. What I've found about the royal household and their travels is here in the post. Your guess is as good as mine.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-623466288920872312017-06-07T07:10:05.284+01:002017-06-07T07:10:05.284+01:00Fascinating piece again Kathryn. I did not realise...Fascinating piece again Kathryn. I did not realise the royal households were so large. But two questions spring to mind. <br /><br />1. Did some of the households of both Edward and Isabella stay in London or other major cities on administrative duties while they were travelling around the country, or were those duties left to the staff or officers of the chancellor or the treasurer? Parliaments tended to last for a month or more in most cases so accommodating the full royal household as well as various other retinues would have put quite a strain on even the largest cities. But if something like 40% were looking after the king's affairs in London or travelling on other royal duties, that could have eased the burden.<br /><br />2. How far would they have been reduced while Edward (and to some extent Isabella) were involved in military campaigns. Having recently visited Tynemouth priory to try and understand how Isabella escaped from there in 1322, the thought of two hundred of her household trying to board a mediaeval cog, presumably from the small beach that is now home to Tynemouth Sailing club, is really quite staggering.Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-25300308510916891422017-06-05T22:36:48.450+01:002017-06-05T22:36:48.450+01:00Fantastic stuff! You are The Expert, K!!Fantastic stuff! You are The Expert, K!!sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-49849276439565500432017-06-05T08:54:57.906+01:002017-06-05T08:54:57.906+01:00Thank you. I, too, have often wondered about where...Thank you. I, too, have often wondered about where all those people slept, not just the court, but the households of the nobles.April Mundayhttp://www.aprilmunday.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-24414308822798676512017-06-04T18:46:12.955+01:002017-06-04T18:46:12.955+01:00I may be missing the point here - but surely, if E...I may be missing the point here - but surely, if Edward had hundreds of courtiers and Isabella about the same, someone but someone would have reported that Edward and Isabella didn't have a 'normal' marriage i.e sleeping together and others were not occupying their marital bed. It seems absolutely ridiculous to me if Edward was such a weak, effeminate man who disappointed Isabella that she wouldn't look elsewhere for 'comfort' whilst Edward was on the throne and<br />let him get on with his dalliances whilst she just found someone to entertain and love her; but I don't believe they didn't love each other and it all went horribly wrong. AmandaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-62167428565749361602017-06-04T17:14:43.049+01:002017-06-04T17:14:43.049+01:00Thanks, Matt!Thanks, Matt!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-26797267718971016782017-06-04T17:13:20.940+01:002017-06-04T17:13:20.940+01:00Excellent post/ information.
Excellent post/ information.<br />matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691966162433466281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-28455579123890716522017-06-04T17:02:33.885+01:002017-06-04T17:02:33.885+01:00Yes, it's as much as I can do to get myself to...Yes, it's as much as I can do to get myself to the tram stop on time and remember to go to the supermarket before it closes. :-) Thanks, Caroline!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-37168374453770865042017-06-04T16:42:02.619+01:002017-06-04T16:42:02.619+01:00I love it. And to think it takes all my resources ...I love it. And to think it takes all my resources to get me, my husband and the dog to Southampton. Keep up the good work Kathryn.Caroline Newarknoreply@blogger.com