tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post3058602440721284660..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Did Edward II and Isabella of France Meet in November 1326?Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-15228206296060633282018-03-20T20:15:31.349+00:002018-03-20T20:15:31.349+00:00I have just re-read Seymour Phillips's account...I have just re-read Seymour Phillips's account of the capture of Edward II, and he states that Isabella and Prince Edward sent a message to Edward at Monmouth on 20th November to request he surrender the Great Seal (which he did, releasing it to Sir William Blount). He in turn passed it to Isabella four days later. That suggests to me at least that Isabella did not visit Monmouth. <br /><br />However, Seymour Phillips also states that Edward was then taken to Kenilworth via Ledbury, and, like Anonymous, I wonder if that was where any meeting might have taken place. It may not have been at the bishop's palace, as I suspect Adam Orleton would not have approved of such a meeting, but I believe Ledbury is also the site if a 13th century hospital complex, some of which has recently been restored. Could the meeting have taken place there? I know nothing of its history, or who ran it, but as much of the treatment of sickness lay with the church, a friendly order of monks or friars could have tried to arrange it.<br /><br />But the time window is pretty tight. Again if I have read Seymour Phillips correctly, Isabella met the bishop of Norwich, the new chancellor, at Cirencester on the 28th November, so perhaps it never happened after all. But it is nice to speculate.Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-91678261568944993192018-03-20T14:24:18.299+00:002018-03-20T14:24:18.299+00:00Many thanks for your thoughtful comments, everyone...Many thanks for your thoughtful comments, everyone! Much appreciated, and there's much to ponder! At the absolute least, even if Edward wasn't in Hereford in November 1326 and even if Isabella didn't aid her son to overthrow Mortimer in 1330 - and I love the suggestion that she did - I think it's brilliant that we're thinking along these lines. Too often, it seems to me, the narrative of Edward II's reign is believed to be 'fixed' and we think we know exactly what everyone was doing and thinking. We don't, in the slightest. It is not in any way a given that Isabella was passionately in love with Mortimer. It is not in any way a given that she loathed her husband and had been plotting against him for years.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-90374638133861515222018-03-20T13:59:09.607+00:002018-03-20T13:59:09.607+00:00Its been a couple of years since I read the source...Its been a couple of years since I read the sources on the abdication of Edward II, but I seemed to remember, somewhat imperfectly, that Edward was taken to Ledbury from Wales and the Bishop's Palace, held by Adam Orleton at the time. Ledbury is a mere 8-9 miles from Hereford. Could be wrong though!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-31687506991745583802018-03-19T19:51:32.647+00:002018-03-19T19:51:32.647+00:00IMO, sami parkkonen's idea makes a lot of sens...IMO, sami parkkonen's idea makes a lot of sense. After removing her from power, Edward III treated his mother quite well, giving her a large income and keeping her involved with his growing brood of children. This sounds reasonable if Isabella helped her son get rid of Mortimer. This does not strike me as consistent with the idea that Edward III thought she had his father (whom Edward III was rather fond of, IIRC) murdered in a peculiarly horrific manner. <br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-39464089537922542502018-03-18T22:55:19.858+00:002018-03-18T22:55:19.858+00:00I don't think Isabella wanted Mortimer rule an...I don't think Isabella wanted Mortimer rule anything but to protect her son and make it possible for her to make certain that son is going to be a king one day. But as we know now, Mortimer had different ideas and it is very likely he was planning to remove the son from the picture one way or the other.<br /><br />Considering how easily young Edward III and his companions gained the secret entry into the Nottingham castle and surprised Mortimer and his men completely, is not strange how no one, not one historian, has ever sat down to think about Isabella and her part in that plot?<br /><br />It is stated that Edward III had an inside man, some are even named, but no one has ever wondered about the possibility that the main ally inside the walls was Isabella. She, after all, had most to lose if Mortimer was going after her son. And if Mortimer, as it seems when one looks at his last actions, was going to do something against the young king, would Isabella had been watching the events folding from the side lines? I doubt.<br /><br />No one has ever considered this possibility because everybody wants to believe that 1. Isabella was completely utterly in love with super hot Mortimer and could not resist his masculine powers. 2. Isabella was weak woman under the mercy of super man Mortimer or 3. she wanted to keep on looting the land with Mortimer. And yet: it was she who made the whole invasion and overthrowing her husband possible. <br /><br />It makes more sense than any other option. Isabella was able to invade England and most of all get the support of the most powerful men of the realm. She managed to wipe out the Despensers as she wanted. And when her ally Mortimer was showing signs of grand ideas for the land and over ambition concerning his position in the kingdom, her son the king took the matters into his own hands and captured the mighty super warrior Mortimer with handful of supporters. How he managed to do this so easily? Who was in the position to warn young king, arrange his absence from Nottingham and reveal the secret entry and clear route straight to the chambers? <br /><br />Queen Isabella, who was able to over throw the previous king, invade the realm, win over the barons, gather an army which grew from day to day and win the realm into her hands. Granted,. she could have not done it without Mortimer, but she was the one around whom the barons gathered. She had been trained to the role of the queen. She was not just any maid waiting to be picked up by some knight.sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-16762348808441925882018-03-17T15:26:10.184+00:002018-03-17T15:26:10.184+00:00It's fascinating to think of such a meeting ta...It's fascinating to think of such a meeting taking place. And maybe Edward was at Hereford - he was tantalisingly close. It may well have been possible to keep him hidden from public view. Maybe Isabella wanted Edward as a puppet King, with her and Mortimer controlling him, and Mortimer was the over-mighty subject. It would have been a very risky strategy, but it could be that this was Isabella's original intent.Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-82139061655113819892018-03-16T19:43:48.178+00:002018-03-16T19:43:48.178+00:00Isn't it odd that modern historians think they...Isn't it odd that modern historians think they know more about what Isabella was thinking and feeling than Isabella herself does?. (I really don't believe that Isabella had an affair with Mortimer -- I think the reports are just sexism because no one would believe that Mortimer was seriously conspiring with a woman) Seriously, I doubt that Edward would have been at Hugh's trial even if he was with Lancaster ... he was so unusually tall, I think he would have been noticed.<br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com