tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post3721760460477130807..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Edward II in custody 1327: part two, escapesKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-9180227464008071022013-10-23T12:52:55.509+01:002013-10-23T12:52:55.509+01:00"Look, we all go way back and, uh, I owe you ..."Look, we all go way back and, uh, I owe you from the thing with the guy in the place. And I'll never forget it"--Reuben, "Ocean's Eleven", 2001.<br /><br />The quote fits, doesn't it?<br /><br />Since I've found you mentioning Sean Bean twice during my chronological exploration of your posts, I looked him up on the Internet. I knew the name, but could not place the face. I recognized him at once from "Game of Thrones", and you know what's strange? I was picturing him as one of the Dunheved brothers while I read your blog! Sean isn't my image of Edward, though I do picture a British actor who in his younger days could almost have passed as Edward's twin. Sometimes it's difficult for me to bring alabaster effigies and manuscript illustrations to life unless I visualize a living person.<br />An excellent example of artwork failing to capture the subject would be Anne Boleyn, whose portraits seem almost cartoonish. Fortunately, there's an American soap opera actress who, in the early 1970s, had similar features to--hold your nose, now--"Anne"imate, her for me perfectly.<br /><br />What's interesting is that we all have our unique way of picturing these historical figures, especially those without contemporary likenesses, and no two of us see them the same. Yet here we gather together to learn about them!<br /><br />Another interesting coincidence is that over ten years before the tragedy of "Braveheart", I chose Mel Gibson as my image of Mortimer. I'd seen him in "Mad Max", and the idea was reinforced by three of the first four "Lethal Weapon" films where his hair is just right. Not long after discovering Mortimer, I found the perfect Isabella while watching music videos one night. I'd never heard of her, but within a year she was a superstar and is to this day. <br /><br />Which brings to mind the question: if Mel Gibson wanted to "roger" Isabella so badly (and, yes, I DO know what that means in the UK) why didn't he just make a movie about Mortimer? He could have "gay-bashed" Edward all the way through it, instead of just sporadically. But, I guess Mel wanted to portray a hero, and depicting Mortimer as a worthy protagonist would have strained the limits of even Gibson's wild imagination.<br /><br />A note about Glenda Jackson, who is also MY favorite Elizabeth: for those who may not know it, since it was released a long time ago, she was also Elizabeth in the film, "Mary Queen of Scots", with Vanessa Redgrave playing the title role.MRatsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-69766114817695062762006-11-20T22:56:00.000+00:002006-11-20T22:56:00.000+00:00LOL. I don't think those Mortimers are related. Th...LOL. I don't think those Mortimers are related. Though it could be fun if they were. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-68700133741880772862006-11-20T19:56:00.000+00:002006-11-20T19:56:00.000+00:00Ooh, that's great stuff, Gabriele! Love your tran...Ooh, that's great stuff, Gabriele! Love your translations. Schiller's references to 'Mortimer' threw me a bit, though. ;)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-13555230368838408002006-11-20T19:19:00.000+00:002006-11-20T19:19:00.000+00:00Alianore,
there's a bit about Schiller's Maria Stu...Alianore,<br />there's a bit about Schiller's <i>Maria Stuart</i> on my blog today. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63865253935520139792006-11-19T18:17:00.000+00:002006-11-19T18:17:00.000+00:00That's right, Gabriele, I'd forgotten about that -...That's right, Gabriele, I'd forgotten about that - he was arrested for drink driving, wasn't he, and came out with some nasty stuff?<br /><br />I didn't know Schiller had invented a meeting between Elizabeth and Mary - that's interesting. I haven't seen the BBC series with Ann-Marie Duff yet.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-51627103853035465172006-11-19T17:10:00.000+00:002006-11-19T17:10:00.000+00:00No, no Mel Gibson, not only because of Braveheart ...No, no Mel Gibson, not only because of <i>Braveheart</i> but also because of his anti-Semitism. Drunk people say the truth, don't they? <br /><br />That Elisabeth meets Mary thing is an invention of the German playwright Friedrich von Schiller (1759-1805) and obviously has become a stock motive since then.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-22408115581834251132006-11-19T15:15:00.000+00:002006-11-19T15:15:00.000+00:00The Glenda Jackson version is superb, in my view -...The Glenda Jackson version is superb, in my view - well worth looking out for on DVD. <br /><br />Deirdre - there were two recent British TV miniseries on Elizabeth, one made by Channel 4 and starring Helen Mirren, one made by the BBC and starring Ann-Marie Duff. Both had their good and bad points.<br /><br />Agreed about the unpleasant stereotypes in <i>Braveheart</i>. I suppose they needed a good excuse for Isabella to have an adulterous fling with Mel, so Edward had to be an unsympathetic character.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67829974760661829592006-11-19T14:58:00.000+00:002006-11-19T14:58:00.000+00:00Hi Deirdre. Yes, the contemporary chronicles say ...Hi Deirdre. Yes, the contemporary chronicles say that Edward was big (at least 6 feet), enormously strong, and extremely fit and healthy. He loved outdoor exercise such as swimming (in the middle of winter sometimes!), digging ditches, thatching roofs, etc. In other words, he was about as far from the (nastily stereotypical, IMO) depiction of him in <i>Braveheart</i> as you can get.<br /><br />As for his favourites, Piers Gaveston was 'King of the Joust' and a great soldier, and Hugh Despenser was a pirate on the English Channel in winter - so none of them were soft and effeminate, as also seen in <i>Braveheart</i> (the character of Philip).<br /><br />I did enjoy <i>Elizabeth</i> for the most part, but I haven't actually seen the Glenda Jackson version, so I don't know how they compare. I certainly prefer the Helen Mirren version to the Cate Blanchett film of a few years ago.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-66540742497761200692006-11-19T14:17:00.000+00:002006-11-19T14:17:00.000+00:00Sean Bean sounds like a great choice for Edward, A...Sean Bean sounds like a great choice for Edward, Alianore! That particular bit of casting would make a good change from the wispy, effeminate way Edward way Edward was portrayed in Braveheart (yet another big inaccuracy, since wasn't Edward II in reality supposed to be tall and broad-shouldered and athletic?)<br /><br />As for the recent Elizabeth biopic, I've made a point of avoiding it after the things I heard about it. The best portrayal of Queen Liz will always be for me Glenda Jackson in Elizabeth R.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-66833161347367541152006-11-19T13:31:00.000+00:002006-11-19T13:31:00.000+00:00The 'Elizabeth secretly meets Mary' storyline anno...The 'Elizabeth secretly meets Mary' storyline annoyed me too - for me, a big part of what makes the story so fascinating is that the two women <i>didn't</i> meet. Oh well, the rest was pretty good, especially the graphic beheading of Essex (played by Hugh Dancy, who is going to shine as Stephen Dunheved, I'm sure).<br /><br />Berkeley had a moat in the Middle Ages, and is next to the Severn, which the men will definitely have to cross, probably several times, in broad daylight - just to make the most of the 'wet shirt' shots!<br /><br />I'm not sure what the 'lawn games' are - Susan told me about it. To me it sounds like a rather transparent attempt to make Isabella a more sympathetic character by turning Edward's 'imprisonment' into jolly japesome frolics, but we'll see... With any luck, my copy of the novel will arrive in the next day or two, and I'll blog about it.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-26840015867722967992006-11-19T13:05:00.000+00:002006-11-19T13:05:00.000+00:00He was, wasn't he? The historical liberties in th...He was, wasn't he? The historical liberties in the Channel 4 Elizabeth annoyed me (the meeting with Mary Queen of Socts that never was; having Elizabeth present at Leicester's deathbed, which somehow lost most of the emotional impact; an actual knife-wielding Catholic assassin - oh, please), but Jeremy Irons and Helen Mirren made up for a lot.<br /><br />You wouldn't need to take many liberties with <i>Edward's Elevenses</i> to get a great story out of it, would you? There's not a lot known, which means lots of space between the facts to spin a story in. E.g. it's not known how they got into the castle, so if you fancy a wet-shirt scene (might as well make good use of all that eye candy) you can decide they had to swim the moat - and if the castle was unsporting enough not to have a moat, there must be a river somewhere in the vicinity.....<br /><br />Pity there isn't an Oscar category for 'Most Eye Candy In A Single Picture'. It'd win hands down :-)<br /><br />What, by the way, are <i>lawn games</i>? It sounds faintly salacious. Like 'Gone for Tiffin' in the Carry On films.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-46747309254452820952006-11-19T08:38:00.000+00:002006-11-19T08:38:00.000+00:00Edward's Elevenses - the new Edward and Isabella n...<i>Edward's Elevenses</i> - the new Edward and Isabella novel I'm waiting for apparently has Edward playing 'lawn games' during his imprisonment at Berkeley, and elevenses would seem to fit that! ;)<br /><br />I'm not a fan of Russell Crowe, and I haven't really forgiven Mel Gibson for <i>Braveheart</i>, so no roles for them. I'll definitely consider the others, though! Jeremy Irons was great as Leicester in the Channel 4 production.<br /><br />Gabriele, the eye candy would make even me forgive any historical errors. ;)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-41383707061416464952006-11-18T18:44:00.000+00:002006-11-18T18:44:00.000+00:00Alianore,
I'd soo watch that movie. I'd even get t...Alianore,<br />I'd soo watch that movie. I'd even get the DVD. And I won't care about historical correctness, not with that cast. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-4255229641976714452006-11-18T17:55:00.000+00:002006-11-18T17:55:00.000+00:00Oh, yes, obviously. It never occurred to me to th...Oh, yes, obviously. It never occurred to me to think otherwise :-)<br /><br />Don't you want to get Mel Gibson and Russell Crowe in there somewhere? Piers Brosnan? Jeremy Irons? How about an elder-statesman role for Sean Connery?<br /><br />Since there are two lots of eleven, maybe we should call it <i>Edward's Elevenses</i>?Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42750011237901373412006-11-18T17:27:00.000+00:002006-11-18T17:27:00.000+00:00LOL, Deirdre and Carla! The title Ocean's Eleven ...LOL, Deirdre and Carla! The title <i>Ocean's Eleven</i> always makes me think of cricket too, and the number 22 makes me think of the length of a cricket pitch, in yards (but then I am a bit of a cricket anorak).<br /><br />This is my potential cast list for <i>Edward's Eleven(s)</i>:<br />- Edward II: Sean Bean<br />- Roger Mortimer: Clive Owen<br />- The Dunheved brothers: Ioan Gruffudd and Hugh Dancy<br />- Henry 'Mr Big' of Lancaster: Viggo Mortensen<br />- Gang members: Ben Chaplin, Joseph Fiennes, Dougray Scott, Orlando Bloom....<br /><br />All of the above chosen for their acting ability and not their looks, obviously. ;) Oh, and Sophie Marceau could reprise her <i>Braveheart</i> role as Isabella.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-13698170519938231022006-11-18T16:30:00.000+00:002006-11-18T16:30:00.000+00:00Great title, Deirdre! And Alianore says there wer...Great title, Deirdre! And Alianore says there were 21 named conspirators, plus possibly Henry of Lancaster as a shadowy 'Mr Big' figure in the background, which makes 22 - which is exactly two lots of eleven...<br />It's no doubt my fault for being a Brit, but <i>Ocean's Eleven</i> always makes me think of a cricket team.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-44359733044159663862006-11-18T14:12:00.000+00:002006-11-18T14:12:00.000+00:00I'm imagining in my head right now a Medieval vers...I'm imagining in my head right now a Medieval version of Ocean's Eleven, except instead of a heist it deals with a rescue effort. Perhaps we could call the film "Edward's Eleven"? ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-62979530072914020832006-11-18T13:46:00.000+00:002006-11-18T13:46:00.000+00:00Ooh, nice idea for a poll, Carla! I'll have to th...Ooh, nice idea for a poll, Carla! I'll have to think of some alternatives - 'murdered (he deserved it)', 'lived HEA as a lowly mason', 'lived HEA as a hermit', 'imprisoned for many more years' etc...<br /><br />This really would make a brilliant idea for a novel - and a film! *Gets carried away imagining which actors would play the roles*.<br /><br />Much as I'd love to believe that Edward was not recaptured and nobody remembered to inform Rhys, the lack of panic evident in the autumn of 1327 suggests that, unfortunately, he was. I'll have to write a post sometime about Kent's conspiracy in 1330, when he was executed for trying to restore Edward to the throne - despite having attended Edward's funeral.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-41898620885783020262006-11-18T12:19:00.000+00:002006-11-18T12:19:00.000+00:00It's a lovely idea. (How about a new poll, Aliano...It's a lovely idea. (How about a new poll, Alianore, "What would you like to have happened to Edward II?" - I bet the 'lived happily ever after as a lowly mason' idea would win hands down).<br /><br />Sadly, since there was a second plot to free Edward, either he was recaptured or Rhys was labouring under a cruel delusion.<br /><br />Oooh, I would like to do something with this! It has everything.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-68539489379854533832006-11-16T09:50:00.000+00:002006-11-16T09:50:00.000+00:00Yes, lots of plotbunnies there, Gabriele! ;) It's...Yes, lots of plotbunnies there, Gabriele! ;) It's a nice idea, isn't it?Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-33827902508343516852006-11-15T18:46:00.000+00:002006-11-15T18:46:00.000+00:00Hehe, the material for a story where Edward escape...Hehe, the material for a story where Edward escapes and lives as lowly mason somewhere in the countryside, probably happy for the first time in his life. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com