tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post3840004068663158511..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Ruffians and Rioters? The Dunheved Gang (1)Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-12867680475803897532007-08-27T15:50:00.000+01:002007-08-27T15:50:00.000+01:00Liam: yes, that's the only reason that occurs to m...Liam: yes, that's the only reason that occurs to me - that, and he hated Roger Mortimer, so probably had no desire to return to a Mortimer-ruled England. But he had to flee England/Wales twice, and joined Kent's conspiracy, so he must have been pretty devoted to Ed II, I would think.<BR/><BR/>The similarity to Burgundy occurred to me, too - even the name's the same (Margaret)! :)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-74940941914223127732007-08-27T13:29:00.000+01:002007-08-27T13:29:00.000+01:00"Rhys was offered a pardon several times in 1328, ..."Rhys was offered a pardon several times in 1328, but evidently wasn't interested."<BR/><BR/>I wonder why?? Personal devotion to Edward II maybe??<BR/><BR/>"In 1330, Edward II's sister Margaret was dowager Duchess of Brabant, and Duke Jan III was his nephew, so Brabant was a safe haven for enemies of Mortimer and Isabella."<BR/><BR/>That reminds me of the early days of Henry VII's reign, when the court of Edward IV's sister, the Duchess of Burgundy, was a welcome home for anyone looking to stir up trouble for the Tudor regime!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-85517644735183932422007-08-13T19:00:00.000+01:002007-08-13T19:00:00.000+01:00Thanks, Susan!Yes, that's one of the main reasons ...Thanks, Susan!<BR/><BR/>Yes, that's one of the main reasons why I don't believe Ed ever seriously contemplated annulling his marriage to Isa. The marriage of his great-grandparents, Alfonso IX of Leon and Berenguela of Castile, was annulled on the grounds of consanguinity, but their children were still considered legitimate. However, that's the only example I know of where that happened, and considering the political situation in 1324/25 - not to mention the fact that the Pope was in Avignon - I seriously doubt the Pope would ever have consented to an annulment. Besides which, Ed and Isa had been granted a papal dispensation to marry because of consanguinity, and there were no other grounds for annulment.<BR/><BR/>And, of course, Isa's trip to France to negotiate with her brother Charles IV over Gascony was put forward in early 1324, so it seems highly unlikely that he'd have ended their marriage while that was on-going.<BR/><BR/>Plus, nobody's ever found a shred of evidence to suggest that the story is true! I can believe that Ed, in a fit of temper, might have have talked about annulment, but I really doubt he ever saw it as a viable option.<BR/><BR/>But it's a useful stick to beat Ed with, and makes Isa more of a 'victim', so it's often repeated as fact. :(Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-36577332630951039252007-08-13T18:13:00.000+01:002007-08-13T18:13:00.000+01:00Fascinating post! None of the people who accept th...Fascinating post! <BR/><BR/>None of the people who accept the divorce-from-Isabella story seem to stop to consider the ramifications it would have had for the royal succession, do they? I suppose it would have been possible to annul the marriage of Edward and Isabella while preserving the legitimacy of the children thereof, but I think it would still have been a very awkward position for Edward, and one that he would not have wanted to create for himself by trying to dissolve his marriage to Isabella.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-74573136908023426132007-08-13T12:55:00.000+01:002007-08-13T12:55:00.000+01:00Thanks, Kate! Hope you had a nice glass (or sever...Thanks, Kate! Hope you had a nice glass (or several) of wine...;)<BR/><BR/>That's a really interesting question, and one that I can't answer very well, I'm afraid. Some of the men had been members of Ed's household (some of the men here, and some in the next post), so for them I'd imagine it was personal loyalty to Ed. But for many of the others, I can't find much of a connection to Ed - Stephen Dunheved, for example, who was probably the gang member most fanatically loyal to Ed, but for what reason, I can only guess.<BR/><BR/>One of the men in the next post was a knight, who Ed had never shown any great favour to - so why he was willing to risk his life for Ed, when most people of his class accommodated themselves to the new 'regime', is a puzzle. And the monk from Morpeth must have felt very strongly about Ed to travel 100s of miles south to join the gang and help with the attack on the castle - but why exactly...I have absolutely no idea! :-)<BR/><BR/>Maybe some of them believed Ed would reward them handsomely if and when he became king again - but it was still a hell of a risk, of course, and they could equally well have chosen to serve Isabella and Mortimer and look for rewards there.<BR/><BR/>Fascinating, isn't it?! :)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-14973103963528856602007-08-13T12:16:00.000+01:002007-08-13T12:16:00.000+01:00AlianoreWhy do you think these men risked their li...Alianore<BR/><BR/>Why do you think these men risked their lives for Edward II time and again? Did they care for him as a person or was it the fact that he was their lord; or did they stand to gain something from their allegiance? Were they trying to set things right by keeping the rightful king on the throne thereby continuing the proper order of things? Many and all of those reasons I expect....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-31216893772956623442007-08-13T11:42:00.000+01:002007-08-13T11:42:00.000+01:00I may have had too much wine... but ..... I really...I may have had too much wine... but ..... I really really wish I had a time machine.<BR/><BR/>Will have to read all that wonderful info over and over again....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com