tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post4203924811587605604..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: What if Edward I had died in August 1283?Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-48978904587284829312014-04-09T12:24:29.607+01:002014-04-09T12:24:29.607+01:00As to what might have happened in Wales...
Well, ...<i>As to what might have happened in Wales...</i><br /><br />Well, no Tudor monarchy for a start, because no John of Gaunt, so no Henry V, which means that if Owain Tudur had wanted to crawl into bed with Catherine de Valois, he'd have had to go somewhere else in Europe to do it.<br /><br />So, no Henry VIII, probably no Cromwell and perhaps no Laws of Wales Act, meaning that traditional Welsh civil law might still be in force west of the marches, with Welsh courts dispensing traditional Welsh justice in Welsh. For a start.chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-83123870971674322622014-04-09T10:23:43.429+01:002014-04-09T10:23:43.429+01:00Hi Kathryn,
This is quite a fascinating post. Wha...Hi Kathryn,<br /><br />This is quite a fascinating post. What would have happened if Edward and Eleanor had been killed, and then Alphonso had died as well? I can imagine a council of Regency for Alphonso led by Edmund of Lancaster, but what would follow?<br /><br />Was Eleanor the daughter already engaged to Alfonso III at that date, or Joan to the earl of Gloucester? It is not too difficult to imagine the barons and prelates turning to Edmund to become king, but would Alfonso have started a war to enforce the rights of his fiancee? What role would Gilbert de Clare have taken in support of Joan? There could have been a long civil war, similar to the "Anarchy" of King Stephen's reign. Alternatively there might have been a series of wars as Edmund, Alfonso and Gilbert struggled for supremacy, with short periods of peace while an exiled descendent sought support in France or Spain before invading again.<br /><br />If I were a betting man, I would put my money on Gilbert, earl of Gloucester, at least initially. King Gilbert the First? Interesting thought! But then after many years of civil war we could have had a King Henry of Grosmont. Now that would have been really intersting.<br /><br />And as to what might have happened in Wales and Scotland... Have you got space for a book on this website?Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-21612542983844919982014-04-08T21:38:48.589+01:002014-04-08T21:38:48.589+01:00Hi Kathryn , hope your well. I found this article ...Hi Kathryn , hope your well. I found this article interesting. I also wanted you to take a look at this.<br />could this be another angle......<br />http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/victorian-simon-abney-hastings-has-fair-dinkum-claim-to-english-throne/story-fndo4cq1-1226423828014<br /><br />http://www.smh.com.au/comment/obituaries/the-jerilderie-man-who-could-have-been-king-20120705-21jwz.html<br /><br />I think this is quite interesting and you might also. Prehaps it means nothing.....but have a look and ignore it if you want to because everybody has. .....I cannot reach the people who did the research nor does anybody else answer. as an author, i thought you should know.Anne Millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-52715117898249404732014-04-08T15:53:46.158+01:002014-04-08T15:53:46.158+01:00Sorry, I accidentally hit Reject instead of Accept...Sorry, I accidentally hit Reject instead of Accept for Jayne's comment!<br /><br />Jayne Smith: <br /><br />Edmund of Lancaster as King would have been fine by me. Not so sure about his son Thomas though !<br /><br />Great post Kathryn. What if's are fun !Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-20222852090178433992014-04-08T10:48:32.954+01:002014-04-08T10:48:32.954+01:00I think there would've been a civil war and wh...I think there would've been a civil war and who knows what would have happened with Wales and Scotland?Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-40942562675335147552014-04-07T19:25:08.829+01:002014-04-07T19:25:08.829+01:00Thomas of Lancaster as king?
Even his biographer ...Thomas of Lancaster as king?<br /><br />Even his biographer describes him as rapacious, grasping, cruel, willing to ride roughshod over the rights of others, unscrupulous, violent, avaricious and (my favourite)"almost repulsive".<br /><br />It wasn't just Edward I who had a narrow escape in 1283.<br /><br />JoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-72005583569877221732014-04-07T14:54:45.681+01:002014-04-07T14:54:45.681+01:00Alas, I fear that war with France would have happe...Alas, I fear that war with France would have happened whoever was king of England. The French kings wanted control of Gascony and they would have found a casus belli one way or another, as they did with Saint Sardos. Now the outcome, of course, is open to speculation...chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-68908156502838887842014-04-07T12:49:29.431+01:002014-04-07T12:49:29.431+01:00Fascinating post, Kathryn, so many "what ifs&...Fascinating post, Kathryn, so many "what ifs". Some time ago I too was toying with the idea of writing a similar post about Henry, but somehow the other way round, "what if Henry survived in 1183" :-)<br /><br />PS Thank you for your e-mail. I'll try to respond ASAP (meaning when things are back to normal in my family- we have all caught a bad cold).Katarzyna Ogrodnik-Fujcikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415905019122111675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-37041884219900558982014-04-06T22:21:26.543+01:002014-04-06T22:21:26.543+01:00Maybe England would have imported kings from Germa...Maybe England would have imported kings from Germany earlier then. There was the Welfen line, after all. :-)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-57944385560141569502014-04-06T21:11:45.959+01:002014-04-06T21:11:45.959+01:00Interesting. I wonder what would have happened aro...Interesting. I wonder what would have happened around the time of the Reformation, if there were not any Tudors (I doubt that they would have come to the throne without the Wars of the Roses)<br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-6560049972744699622014-04-06T18:57:54.223+01:002014-04-06T18:57:54.223+01:00What is even more worrying is that with 99% of us ...What is even more worrying is that with 99% of us (Ian Mortimer "The Perfect King") descended from Edward III, we wouldn't exist! I know I wouldn't as my ancestor was Edmund, Earl of Kent.<br />Carolinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-76110969012723590582014-04-06T17:59:42.904+01:002014-04-06T17:59:42.904+01:00I'm sure there would still have been a huge dy...I'm sure there would still have been a huge dynastic struggle, akin to the Wars of the Roses. I'm always struck by the irony of that - basically Edward III had too many sons. And what would have happened if the Black Prince had survived? Lots to debate with 'if only' history.Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-7497884703456565742014-04-06T13:00:59.191+01:002014-04-06T13:00:59.191+01:00Brilliant, thanks!Brilliant, thanks!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-91013627431924556492014-04-06T12:59:59.355+01:002014-04-06T12:59:59.355+01:00The archaeological report for the excavation of Ca...The archaeological report for the excavation of Caergwrle Castle - which recorded evidence of the fire - can be found here: http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/med_arch/contents.cfm?vol=38&CFID=16780&CFTOKEN=CCB61B21-20B3-47A7-BB811CA876B53AEDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com