tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post4246285323431492252..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: John of Eltham, Edward II's SonKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-43151316948501610002023-07-22T15:27:49.669+01:002023-07-22T15:27:49.669+01:00Have you ever heard of s as Packham staying at or ...Have you ever heard of s as Packham staying at or in the grounds of Eltham? I’m trying to trace the history of a packham- wilding a nurse child raised by the wildings , the census record state Packham - nurse child - Eltham Lord Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-50613665571932833612014-08-17T09:26:36.372+01:002014-08-17T09:26:36.372+01:00I meant condemn (the crusades), not condone :-)I meant condemn (the crusades), not condone :-)Ulrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201955178511979110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-19931017642046251922014-08-17T09:12:44.778+01:002014-08-17T09:12:44.778+01:00There seems to be some of the same tension in some...There seems to be some of the same tension in some of the books I've read about the famous Eleanor of Aquitaine. Speaking of Johns, much appears to have been made of the fact that she (or probably rather her husband, Henry II) had John sent to a monastery at a young age. Presumably this lack of motherly love made John the pr*ck as a human being and king that, even for Medieval standards, many have argued that he was. But, as you indicated in your post, it was very typical for Medieval children, esp. of high birth to be raised somewhere else, married off at an early age, etc. There wasn't any intentional cruelty or lack of caring in such actions. It was just the norm of the day. <br /><br />The 'problem' with people such as Eleanor, John (king) and Edward II, comes, I feel, when we as modern day people try to make them conform too much to our own standards, either in order to make them heroes or villains. We know which role many people want to cast Edward in (and I'm not diminishing his faults here, just setting a limit to them as you appear to do). <br /><br />When I give talks about Eleanor I want people to feel empathy for her, or sympathy at least, without making her out to be a heroine in a modern sense. She did many things we would probably condone today, such as going on crusade with the stated intention to support her husband in killing as many Moslems as possible. (And later supported her son, Richard Lionheart, in doing the same). Just one example. <br /><br />So it's great that you have this blog, Kathryn, especially for storytellers like me who want to be inspired how to tell a riveting story about Medieval characters, but without abusing the actual historical record. It is a challenge for sure. <br /><br />I actually offered a talk about Edward (not university level or anything, just for 'normal' audiences, but there wasn't any demand. I'm going to do so again later, though, and by then I'll hopefully have learnt more about how to make Ed interesting without distorting what we actually know of him to get some bookings.<br /><br />Golly, this comment became rather long, didn't it ... Ulrikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201955178511979110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-89316904593650100572014-08-17T06:36:17.918+01:002014-08-17T06:36:17.918+01:00Once again, as always: BRILLIANT!Once again, as always: BRILLIANT!Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-60373810188184959242014-08-16T06:12:28.316+01:002014-08-16T06:12:28.316+01:00Have a lovely holiday at the seaside, Kasia! I'...Have a lovely holiday at the seaside, Kasia! I'll also be away from this coming Thursday :)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-11656400203512719412014-08-16T00:22:22.161+01:002014-08-16T00:22:22.161+01:00Happy Birthday to John and "Goodbye!" to...Happy Birthday to John and "Goodbye!" to both Kathryn and Edward. I'll be offline for the next two weeks (family trip to the seaside):-) <br /><br />Warmest regards,<br /><br />KasiaKatarzyna Ogrodnik-Fujcikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415905019122111675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-80959503630607055032014-08-15T17:14:03.577+01:002014-08-15T17:14:03.577+01:00I find it interesting that Edward II himself never...I find it interesting that Edward II himself never gave John the earldom - I wonder if it was because he associated Piers so strongly with Cornwall that he was unwilling to give it even to his own son. Or maybe he just felt that John was too young and was waiting a few years.<br /><br />Unfortunately, no, I've never been there :/ Even when I'm back in England, it's at the other corner of the country, as far as away as Kent as you can get. Really hope I can see it some day.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59046644638248702582014-08-15T17:09:07.792+01:002014-08-15T17:09:07.792+01:00John of Eltham - the last Earl of Cornwall, create...John of Eltham - the last Earl of Cornwall, created so in October 1328, when Isabella and Morrtimer were in charge (indeed, Mortimer was created Earl of March on the same day, though John of Eltham was given the precedence). Edward III likely would have had little say in his brother's elevation. It's interesting to wonder how Isabella felt to give the Cornwall title, so associated with Gaveston in her late husband's reign, to her younger son. Henry III's younger brother Richard had been earl of Cornwall, so there was firm precedent that Cornwall was a title for a Plantagenet younger brother. Of course, Edward II had viewed Gaveston as a brother, but now the title was back in the Plantagenet bloodline.<br /><br />Kathryn, have you ever visited Eltham? Is there anything left of Eltham Palace? A ruined stone wall perhaps, like at King's Langley?Brad Verityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12625952433525136026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-46248819454439589232014-08-15T15:28:34.971+01:002014-08-15T15:28:34.971+01:00Actually I'm sure the stork brought all Isabel...Actually I'm sure the stork brought all Isabella's children, hehe :) :) John's in St Edmund's chapel, as far as I know, but sadly I haven't (yet) seen his tomb.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-14119782804766844302014-08-15T15:22:01.564+01:002014-08-15T15:22:01.564+01:00Happy Birthday John! I take it there are no ima...Happy Birthday John! I take it there are no imagined myths about who his father is:). So that means Edward II must have had sex with his wife - shocking, eh?:):) And of course he would have had his own household - that's what the royals did. Amazing how that has become twisted. Amazed John reached 20 and was unmarried. Whereabouts is his tomb in the Abbey? Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.com