tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post4269816704071190234..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: What Happened After The Barons Killed Piers GavestonKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-58404462376249545622009-08-09T07:37:25.704+01:002009-08-09T07:37:25.704+01:00Thanks, all, for the comments! Carla, that's ...Thanks, all, for the comments! Carla, that's a great insight - thanks. Kate, that had occurred to me too, but then, I'm sure everyone must have known how devastated he was...?<br /><br />Anerje: I suppose Gilbert was in an awkward position, stuck between the king and Piers on one side and the Ordainers on the other. Maybe he was just completely sick of Piers and trying to protect him by then?Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63113673684301353222009-08-08T22:20:45.656+01:002009-08-08T22:20:45.656+01:00and yes, Lady D, poor Pembroke must have been horr...and yes, Lady D, poor Pembroke must have been horrified t how things turned out. His honour - and lands - were at stake. The actions of Warwick and Lancaster drove Pembroke to side with the king. Surely not what Warwick and Lancaster would have wanted.<br /><br />Alianore - what do you think of the actions of Gilbert de Clare in this? He was Piers' brother-in-law, yet seems to have stood by and done nothing. Why? Pressure of the older earls?Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-54326312100157628812009-08-08T22:14:24.769+01:002009-08-08T22:14:24.769+01:00I'm in between holidays, so to speak, and just...I'm in between holidays, so to speak, and just have time to ceck out your blog - and what a treat - a posting on Piers. I'm sure Ed was just in total shock at the news, and hence his outburst - 'blaming Piers'. It's Ed's actions that reveal the depth of his loss - caring for Piers' relatives and friends, being unable to bury him straight away, and paying for masses for his soul - plus he bided his time with Lancaster, and seemed to parody his excution with that of Piers murder, as I call it. <br /><br /> Paul Doherty's book is extremely disappointing, and I dislike the way he tries to use his career as a historian to get the reader to believe Ed sent his friend to his death after tiring of him. I think he says something along the lines of the siege of Scarborough being so short something strange must gave happened - some evidence, eh? Piers srrendered under very favourable terms, and Ed must have been happy he was in the protection of Pembroke. It all went wrong at Deddington (sigh)Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-36403995097684513832009-08-07T14:52:21.480+01:002009-08-07T14:52:21.480+01:00Thanks Alianore...
The reason I asked was because...Thanks Alianore...<br /><br />The reason I asked was because it appeared to me (several hundred years later!) that Ed was distancing himself from Piers, regardless as to his own feelings at the time, and I wondered if he didn't want to 'associate' himself publicly yet grieved 'privately' for his friend. What do you think? Poor chap. He must have been devastated, and possibly unable to show it....Kate Plantagenetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-84084642359018750332009-08-07T14:07:33.979+01:002009-08-07T14:07:33.979+01:00I didn't read that quote as indicating that Ed...I didn't read that quote as indicating that Edward had tired of Piers. The reverse, if anything. It's possible to feel anger, even rage, at the loss of someone you love and to think/say "Why didn't they get the symptoms investigated earlier / why were they driving on that stretch of road / why wouldn't they stop smoking " and so on. Which are in some form variants on "How <i>could</i> you go and die and leave me on my own without you?" I read the quote in that light.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-3852350297848674582009-08-07T09:47:19.628+01:002009-08-07T09:47:19.628+01:00I'm not sure about after Piers' death, Kat...I'm not sure about after Piers' death, Kate, but on 4 April 1312, Ed ordered Piers as constable of Scarborough Castle not to deliver the castle to anyone but the king himself,and "if it shall happen<br />that the king is brought there a prisoner, he is not to deliver the castle under such circumstances to the king, or to any other persons whatsoever. In case of the king's death, he is to keep the castle for his heirs." (Patent Rolls) So yes, Ed did contemplate the possibility of his own death at this time - whether that was just a general precaution or a more specific fear of his barons, I don't know.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-65655609577240069142009-08-04T23:04:29.281+01:002009-08-04T23:04:29.281+01:00Alianore...was Edward fearful of his own life from...Alianore...was Edward fearful of his own life from his barons after the death of Piers? Just wondering....Kate Plantagenetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-27224812502062692542009-08-04T20:47:35.511+01:002009-08-04T20:47:35.511+01:00The killing of the king's favourite ensured th...<i>The killing of the king's favourite ensured that England teetered on the brink of civil war...</i><br /><br />Erm, didn't Lancaster assassinate him to avoid just that? Says he, of course. ;)<br /><br />And Edward, how can you be so mean to Isabella's biographers and buy her pearls? They'll have to hide that fact from their readers and tamper with the sources, and that's always such a mess.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-49770856523859269192009-08-04T13:33:05.922+01:002009-08-04T13:33:05.922+01:00I think it's impossible to really ascertain Ed...I think it's impossible to really ascertain Ed's reaction upon hearing of Piers' death. The official records certainly won't give much of a clue beyond the practical measures that had to be taken. And chronicles, even the better ones like the Vita, are still unreliable narrators. I'm sure Ed was distraught, angry and maybe also sightly numbed to the reality at the same time (sounds paradixical, I know, but these are common reactions after the death of a loved one.<br /><br />You have to feel a bit sorry for Pembroke though - before he knew the kinf wouldn't blame him anyway. I bet he was sh***ing himself when he knew Piers had been abducted from under his nose and killed.<br /><br />Great post - as always :-)Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.com