tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post4516619595633697578..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Joan and Elizabeth ComynKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67955189356897030992016-10-15T13:23:04.533+01:002016-10-15T13:23:04.533+01:00Hi, I also meant to ask what was the significance ...Hi, I also meant to ask what was the significance behind the names 'Red' Comyn and 'Black' Comyn? Is is something as simple as hair colour? Thanks.Julie Cummingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-35080811076889688592016-10-15T13:19:58.367+01:002016-10-15T13:19:58.367+01:00Hello Kathryn, I really enjoyed this article espec...Hello Kathryn, I really enjoyed this article especially as my husband is a Comyn (Cumming). What I find strange is how the Earl of Buchan's wife could crown Robert the Bruce King after what he did to her kinsman. Was there no love lost between these two branches of the family? I think I would have preferred to chop his head off rather than put a crown on it. Can you provide me with any further clarification for this?Julie Cummingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-27485255086700990832016-10-15T13:18:05.231+01:002016-10-15T13:18:05.231+01:00Hello Kathryn, I really enjoyed this article espec...Hello Kathryn, I really enjoyed this article especially as my husband is a Comyn (Cumming). What I find strange is how the Earl of Buchan's wife could crown Robert the Bruce King after what he did to her kinsman. Was there no love lost between these two branches of the family? I think I would have preferred to chop his head off rather than put a crown on it. Can you provide me with any further clarification for this?Julie Cummingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-17235869067535751622016-04-08T11:59:17.124+01:002016-04-08T11:59:17.124+01:00This is such a good article; thank you so much! W...This is such a good article; thank you so much! Where can I learn more about the Comyn's? Elizabeth is my 21st Great Grandmother.Deborahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308339885963654220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-6270222914706932282013-12-05T04:24:45.326+00:002013-12-05T04:24:45.326+00:00Hello! My my name is John David Massey and I have ...Hello! My my name is John David Massey and I have a DNA match to a Paul Coman (Comyn) whom traces his line back to a Richard Coman, involved in the Salem Witch Trials of 1692. My DNA kit number at Family Tree DNA is B2044 and at ysearch.org is E9NVC. So far I have matches in Haplogroup I1 (M253)>Z58>Z138/Z139+ or subgroup I1a2b according to ISOGG. Names with close DNA matches are: Massey, Lumsden, Weight, Wecht,Waits, Waite, Mason, Palm, Thompson,Gibbs Weisenborn & Babcock. The Wait/ Wecht appears to be German in origin and possible ancient DNA source. Lumsden is Scotland, Massey-England, Weissenborn-German, Gibbs-England. My postulation is that we came from Germany and settled in France or Neustria of which were Marquis of Neustira. The families migrated to northwestern England in Cheshire/ Chester and onto Scotland, Ireland and then the U.S. We are currently at Z1540+ and more DNA testing will need to be done either through the Full Genome Corporation or FTDNA Big Y. Thank you for your time. <br />David jdmassey73@gmail.comJohn D. Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435178679101906356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42345471447554872592013-08-24T09:53:23.471+01:002013-08-24T09:53:23.471+01:00I don't know, David, sorry - I only know about...I don't know, David, sorry - I only know about the family in the 13th and 14th centuries.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-78203932300567927072013-08-24T09:34:41.144+01:002013-08-24T09:34:41.144+01:00Hi there, I believe my family Cumming ( Comyns ) w...Hi there, I believe my family Cumming ( Comyns ) went to Ireland as part of Cromwells army. Does anyone have any pointers as to any surviving written records from the period which would help in my research. Thankyou. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-52472762171721585142011-05-24T23:39:15.913+01:002011-05-24T23:39:15.913+01:00From some notes I had access to the author felt th...From some notes I had access to the author felt there was a younger son of the red comyn. His name was Jordan and his name appeared on documents alongside his siblings. He ended up in Ireland. Anyone ever heard of a Jordan Comyn from this era?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-41191402776615400262010-11-09T23:57:57.006+00:002010-11-09T23:57:57.006+00:00My first visit to the blog....I'm planning a v...My first visit to the blog....I'm planning a visit to Scotland to explore my roots !!!Susan ComynsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-88197704192544656632009-03-21T16:30:00.000+00:002009-03-21T16:30:00.000+00:00Hi! Afraid I don't know the connection between th...Hi! Afraid I don't know the connection between the Comyns and Hodgins - maybe you could try soc.genealogy.medieval, or genealogics.org? They tend to be very helpful sites, and maybe you'll find what you're looking for! Both Comyn sisters had children, so it's quite possible that you're descended from one of them.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-62858614466182958502009-03-21T12:50:00.000+00:002009-03-21T12:50:00.000+00:00Hi.I have been told that our family are related to...Hi.I have been told that our family are related to the Comyns via the female linage. Does anyone know of the connection between Comyn and Hodgins of England?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-69607988028952186882008-01-21T19:58:00.000+00:002008-01-21T19:58:00.000+00:00Carla: the bankers were the Bardi and the Perruzzi...Carla: the bankers were the Bardi and the Perruzzi of Florence. The Perruzzi left London (though may have returned later, after Ed III took power in 1330 - I'm not sure). The Bardi's house in London was sacked and they went into hiding. Isabella rescued them, because she needed them - she and Mortimer's staggering greed meant that the Bardi paid out many tens of thousands of pounds to them for the next four years (goodness knows how much that is in modern money).Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-132478722230448012008-01-21T19:47:00.000+00:002008-01-21T19:47:00.000+00:00Susan, I concur with your thoughts re: medieval ju...Susan, I concur with your thoughts re: medieval juror opinion. There is an essay concerning the reliability of inquisitions as historical evidence in Bullough and Storey, eds, _The Study of Medieval Records_ (Oxford, 1971). I highly recommend this text for a good background read into the analysis of ancient documents. When covered in the stain and mildew of centuries, modern eyes sometimes magically imbue these old documents with an unimpeachable truthfulness. This revisionist approach makes for great conspiracy movies!Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10517047979325639047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-25217985073123963362008-01-21T19:17:00.000+00:002008-01-21T19:17:00.000+00:00"After his downfall, his Italian bankers fell as w..."After his downfall, his Italian bankers fell as well - attacked in the chaos that hit London in the autumn of 1326, and closed operations!"<BR/>Interesting! Put not your trust in princes (or their favourites). Did it take the whole bank down, or did they just close the London 'branch'? Who did he bank with?Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-25088819032707035422008-01-21T16:19:00.000+00:002008-01-21T16:19:00.000+00:00Big big thanks to Susan and Kevin for giving me j...Big big thanks to Susan and Kevin for giving me just the info I need to finish my blog piece. And I thought I'd looked everywhere. Must get some better glasses!Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-13087031477668356232008-01-21T15:34:00.000+00:002008-01-21T15:34:00.000+00:00I doubt there was a marriage between them, though ...I doubt there was a marriage between them, though there may well have been some discussion of it. The dispensation that Hugh the even younger obtained to marry Elizabeth de Montacute in 1341 doesn't mention any previous marriage or precontract.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that Hugh the younger might have considered marrying his son to Elizabeth and perhaps even made preparations toward that end (hence the belief by the jurors that they actually had married), but gave up the idea when he found that he could get her land without having to go to so much trouble.<BR/><BR/>BTW, Alianore, have you gotten my e-mails?Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-19754744425976751532008-01-21T13:56:00.000+00:002008-01-21T13:56:00.000+00:00Concerning the Cal. of Inquisitions account that S...Concerning the Cal. of Inquisitions account that Susan quoted re: the purported marriage of Elizabeth Comyn to Hugh III. The illegality of the marriage is evident in the wording of the document, so it appears that a corrective memorandum regarding this "error" meant that such a marriage must have carried no sanction. I searched in vain for a mention of this marriage in the peerage accounts. <BR/><BR/>I wonder how this might have actually been done? No time is mentioned, but it would seem most logically to have occured during Elizabeth's imprisonment, when she was most vulnerable to any kind of coercive action--including a forced "marriage" to a man nine years her junior.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10517047979325639047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-33599053257759936262008-01-21T05:43:00.000+00:002008-01-21T05:43:00.000+00:00Thank you, Eamon! I've always understood that the...Thank you, Eamon! I've always understood that the name Comyn derives from Comines, a place in France, and arrived in Scotland after the Norman conquest. <BR/>Would love to exchange links and ideas - I'll be in touch very soon, and will try to explain the medieval history fascination. ;)<BR/><BR/>Gabriele: *grin*. Good point!<BR/><BR/>Kevin: how great to be descended from both of them. Hugh the Younger certainly did have staggeringly enormous reserves of cash. After his downfall, his Italian bankers fell as well - attacked in the chaos that hit London in the autumn of 1326, and closed operations!<BR/><BR/>Jules: I'm really looking forward to reading your thoughts on the whole Liz/Hugh thing. ;)<BR/>I haven't seen Pembroke's will, though his wife Marie's is in Testamenta Vetusta.<BR/><BR/>Kevin and Susan: thanks for the very helpful info. <BR/><BR/>Hugh's 'better' castles no doubt had lots of garage space for all those luxury cars he was 'borrowing' from widows...;)<BR/><BR/>*Starts imagining Hugh's website*Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-34210848651774569962008-01-21T04:53:00.000+00:002008-01-21T04:53:00.000+00:00Oh, I can just see Hugh's website now!And for thos...Oh, I can just see Hugh's website now!<BR/><BR/>And for those castles, some showers and a Roomba vacuum for Eleanor's carpets too, please. None of those dirty rushes!Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-25278844530455017682008-01-21T03:49:00.000+00:002008-01-21T03:49:00.000+00:00wished to have better castles ...Yes, with central...wished to have better castles ...<BR/><BR/>Yes, with central heating, double glassed windows and a fridge, please. And wireless internet connection. Nothing better than a good website to deal with detractors. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-26144444992948233692008-01-21T02:19:00.000+00:002008-01-21T02:19:00.000+00:00Hey, Jules! No hypotherapy required, fortunately. ...Hey, Jules! No hypotherapy required, fortunately. I found it in my bird's nest of papers. It appears to be from the Calendar of Inquisitions from 5 Edward III, for Aymer de Valence, Earl of Pembroke. I'll try to scan it on my new scanner, but here's a bit of it: <BR/><BR/>"Memorandum of errors which were made in the making of the pourparty of the inheritance which was the earl of Pembroke's by Hugh le Despenser, father and son, and master Robert de Baldok, then chancellor, and of their agreement who had assumed to themselves royal power, by reason that Laurence, son and heir of John de Hastygg, married the daughter of said Hugh the son, and the son of the said Hugh married Elizabeth Comyn."<BR/><BR/>On another page it says in part:<BR/><BR/>"Whereas the said David and Joan with John de Hastinnges had sued for a moiety of the said inheritance, and for a quarter of the said inheritance to be delivered to the said Joan, because Hugh le Despenser, then earl of Winchester, and Hugh his son who (had married the same) Elizabeth Comyn, another of the heirs of a fourth part, wished to have better castles . . ."Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-20259494950672275772008-01-21T00:14:00.000+00:002008-01-21T00:14:00.000+00:00Regarding Jules' question of the inheritance of El...Regarding Jules' question of the inheritance of Elizabeth Comyn from Aymer de Valence, I hope the following will suffice:<BR/><BR/>Elizabeth received from Aymer, "as her purparty, in 18 Edward II, an assignation of Castle Goderich, in the Marches of Wales; as also the Mannors of Paynswick, Noyton, and Whaddon, in Com. Glouc. The Mannors of Bampton, in Com. Oxon. Colyngboyne-Valence, and Swynton-Valence, in Com. Wiltes. Hertfordingbury, in Com. Hertf. Polycote, and Doynton, in Com. Buck. Swanescomp, and Nelton, in Com. Cantii, two parts of the Mannor of Shribenham, and certain Tenements in Fernham, in Com. Berks. Arnyng, in Com. Suff. as also the Mannor of Banna, the moytie of two parts of the Mannor of Fernes, the Mannor of Carryk, and moytie of the third part of the Castle and Mannor of Fernes in Ireland." --Dugdale, Baronage 1:686Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10517047979325639047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-56684456302548982442008-01-20T21:22:00.000+00:002008-01-20T21:22:00.000+00:00Susan - I'm fascinated at your comment on the inqu...Susan - I'm fascinated at your comment on the inquisition post mortem about Hugh (the EY) and Liz being married. Please, please can you try and remember where you saw it. Perhaps try hypnotherapy??? ;-) I feel it could be a missing part of the puzzle.Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-1354794736070931112008-01-20T21:19:00.000+00:002008-01-20T21:19:00.000+00:00AhHa! I see you beat me to it on the Comyn thing t...AhHa! I see you beat me to it on the Comyn thing then ;-) Seriously, I will be posting something similar on my blog when I get round to finishing it, but hopefully it will also explore other interpretations of the 'imprisonment' of dear Liz. <BR/><BR/>There seem to be lots of pieces of a puzzle missing here. Does anyone know if any will of Aymer de Valence survives as I want to see what he left to Elizabeth in total?Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-32625741680485406412008-01-20T20:37:00.000+00:002008-01-20T20:37:00.000+00:00Interesting post. Elizabeth Comyn Talbot is an anc...Interesting post. Elizabeth Comyn Talbot is an ancestress of mine (as is her captor, Hugh the Younger). I am always amused at the fact that, in so many cases, I find familial connections to both protagonist and antagonist in these medieval dramas. <BR/><BR/>Amongst other valuable considerations (manors, castles, etc.), during her imprisonment Elizabeth was forced to acknowledge a 10,000 pound indebtedness to the Elder Despenser.<BR/><BR/>I note that E. B. Fryde devotes an entire chapter to Hugh the Younger's deposits with Italian bankers in his work, _Studies in Medieval Trade and Finance: History Series (Hambledon Press), V. 13_. Having ripped off all those defenseless rich women, Hugh probably needed a safe place to put his spoils.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10517047979325639047noreply@blogger.com