tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post6701898189947578947..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: 14 April 1322: Execution of Bartholomew, Lord BadlesmereKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63180057475959141062018-06-20T19:42:54.858+01:002018-06-20T19:42:54.858+01:00I meant 4000 not 40000!I meant 4000 not 40000!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-33182072388798002432018-06-20T19:41:36.445+01:002018-06-20T19:41:36.445+01:00I find it amazing how much detailed history is kno...I find it amazing how much detailed history is known here. There is plenty of material for another special Netflix series. It is another story of my ancestors conspiring and killing one another. In building my family tree in which I have now found about 40000 direct ancestors, I find a larger number of stories like this one where I descended from people who fought and even killed each other as enemies and whose descendants then fell in love, married and had children! In this story I am descended from (at least): Bartholemew, Edward II, Hugh Despenser, Margaret De Clare, Roger Mortimer. I'm surprised their genes still carry on today. My links to all the English Royals and Minors mainly come from royal descendants who came to America in the 17th Century (obviously ones who did not inherit the throne or a county! I read one of them had an inheritance of 20 Shillings). It seems because of four or five 17th century American ancestors, I am descended from most of Europe's medieval royalty including from Edward III back to William the Conqueror, several of his buddies, the Kings of Wessex before him, including the horrible King John and at least 8 barons who forced hime to sign the Magna Carta. They must have all intermarried for power sharing and then their children did too? But zoom forward 500 years from then and we are back to rubbing pennies together for heat (not really but maybe relatively)! I have a feeling those ancestors saw America as a possible way to regain some of their lost fortunes! I was always told there was some royalty in the history of the family on both sides but no one knew any details or names until I began to explore all the information available on the internet. I found both of my parents descended from the French King Louis VI 'The Fat' (by different wives - whew!). It is amazing how much genealogy info exists. 'Royalty in the days of yore' has a romantc ring to it but after reading all these stories I would never be inclined to trade places with any of them! Jon Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-62124828306787737682016-04-18T12:23:14.103+01:002016-04-18T12:23:14.103+01:00Yes, that's true, Llywelyn Bren was another, t...Yes, that's true, Llywelyn Bren was another, though at the younger Despenser's order, so there are still just three men I can think of who suffered the traitor's death on Edward II's orders.<br /><br />I don't think Badlesmere was a bad man by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think he tended to be incompetent and was promoted well above his abilities. I've written a couple of posts here about a rebellion in Bristol in the 1310s which he provoked. And there's a really vicious Latin poem about him written not long after his death (or possibly it was before, can't remember) accusing him of betraying his lord the earl of Gloucester to his death at Bannockburn and saying 'this traitor deserves to be put to the rack'. I cite it here on the blog somewhere.<br /><br />Yes, Lancaster did order the Marchers/Contrariants not to aid Badlesmere when Edward besieged Leeds in October 1321 - that's in my book too.<br /><br />That's interesting about Lyonshall - I didn't know it was his, so thanks for the info. Around the time of his execution, Edward II appointed Stephen Dunheved as its custodian - the man who with his brother Thomas temporarily freed Edward from Berkeley Castle in the summer of 1327.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-45469572498779429322016-04-18T12:05:28.129+01:002016-04-18T12:05:28.129+01:00One reason given for the hatred between Badlesmere...One reason given for the hatred between Badlesmere and Lancaster was that Lancaster considered himself as hereditary steward of the kingdom. I cannot recall where that information was printed, so it could be an error. It sounds as if Badlesmere's appointment as steward was around the time of the so-called "treaty of Leake", and I wonder if Lancaster bore a grudge against him because part of that agreement involved Lancaster agreeing to Badlesmere's appointment. As the Leake agreement failed to survive the Berwick debacle one year later, Lancaster's hatred could have been directed at anyone in the king's household. Ian Mortimer suggests that Lancaster specifically ordered the Marcher rebels not to try to relieve Badlesmere's castles in Kent. I also wonder if Badlesmere allied himself with the earl of Hereford rather than Lancaster. One of his castles was at Lyonshall, not far from Hereford, so he would have been a near neighbour of both Hereford and Roger Mortimer of Wigmore.<br /><br />He seems to have achieved some kind of a record in being hated by both Lancaster and Edward - did anyone else manage that? From what little I know of him, he was not that bad an individual. I believe he was involved, with the earl of Pembroke, in establishing the Christmas truce with Robert Bruce in 1319, so he must have had some diplomatic skills. <br /><br />I think you are correct in identifying Edward's vindictiveness against those he felt had personally betrayed him. Gilbert Middleton's traitor's death was probably inevitable given the embarrassment Edward must have felt over his actions with the two cardinals. Presumably he felt very personally betrayed by both Baldlesmere and Andrew Harclay to have ordered that manner for their deaths. I believe Llewellyn Bren also suffered the traitor's death, although that was supposedly on Hugh Despenser's orders (source - Ian Mortimer in "The Greatest Traitor"). Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-33494790807974975122016-04-15T20:54:20.221+01:002016-04-15T20:54:20.221+01:00Lol Anonymous- I know who you mean and am often to...Lol Anonymous- I know who you mean and am often told her fiction is the REAL truth! Scarily, once by a castle guide!Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-66302544920021269832016-04-15T14:11:11.396+01:002016-04-15T14:11:11.396+01:00It is to your credit that you can write an article...It is to your credit that you can write an article which shows a darker side to Edward's character instead of solely concentrating on the positive. I'm on the fence about Richard III but some Ricardians can't understand why I don't come out on the side of he was a lovely man. And that's not even mentioning the lady who seemed to take it as a personal insult when I said I was not too keen on the works of a (to me) rather bodice-rippery female novelist. I'm not mentioning any names but said novelist seemed to think she was the first person who discovered that Ann Boleyn had a sister.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-89131563104627642512016-04-15T06:01:52.948+01:002016-04-15T06:01:52.948+01:00Comment by Anerje (I rejected it by mistake instea...Comment by Anerje (I rejected it by mistake instead of publishing it!):<br /><br />Maybe the acute feeling of betrayal by someone so close to him influenced Edward's decision to order such a horrifying execution? <br />Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.com