tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post6804677817226435840..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: The Relationship of Queen Isabella and Roger Mortimer (3)Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-70039120564504847512021-02-16T07:27:06.712+00:002021-02-16T07:27:06.712+00:00Thanks, Esther!Thanks, Esther!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-32172827686134074952021-02-16T06:33:02.817+00:002021-02-16T06:33:02.817+00:00Great post, as usual. Another example of the &quo...Great post, as usual. Another example of the "one queen did this ... so another one centuries earlier might have done something similar" is that the romance between Elizabeth Tudor and Robert Dudley is also supposed to have started when they both were imprisoned at the Tower, so why not Isabella and Mortimer? When (G-d willing) COVID restrictions are lifted, I expect someone trying to promote tourism to connect the Tower to romance ... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-573568849529922182021-02-15T15:55:50.163+00:002021-02-15T15:55:50.163+00:00Sami and Chris, thank you both so much for the gre...Sami and Chris, thank you both so much for the great comments!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67895539141639706442021-02-15T14:53:12.698+00:002021-02-15T14:53:12.698+00:00Hi Kathryn -
Great information and analysis again...Hi Kathryn -<br /><br />Great information and analysis again - thank you! The truth is always more complex and deep than the one-dimensional love/hate/affair relationships assumed by more contemporary historians which is why your thoughtful, well-reasoned analysis and discussion is such a breath of fresh air. I've thoroughly enjoyed your series on the relationship of Isabella and Roger.<br /><br />I think your (and sami's) point is very well-taken, Isabella was an intelligent, educated woman who was forced to sail though some pretty treacherous political seas that were not of her own making, and the fact she did so with a pretty high degree of success is a credit to her intelligence and political savvy. Her son was King of England for 50 years, and her great-grandson was King for 22 years, so that speaks to a high degree of political competence.<br /><br />Most importantly, your passion for the subject and your ability to relay that through your writing is infectious - it's so easy to get drawn into this subject and it's facinating.<br /><br />Thank you!<br /><br />ChrisChris Kleinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-36262377696609473212021-02-15T05:21:33.630+00:002021-02-15T05:21:33.630+00:00And here we continue, so sorry about this.
The r...And here we continue, so sorry about this. <br /><br />The romancers also seem to forget that from Mortimer's side a steamy hot sex with the Queen would have been very risky move. If it would come out that he was in his position simply because Isabella allows it he would have easily removed by almost anyone. Yes he needed her backing him up and he needed her name while doing his business deals but getting into the bed with the Queen? Very dangerous indeed. What if he could not satisfy the Queen every time? She would kick him out of the bed and take another one instead. Mortimer needed Isabella and her powers but it was also in his own personal interests not to mess around with her or let anyone do so. Just think about it: here we have a Queen who was ready to kill her husbands "favorite" and throw her husband the King to a cell. What she would do to a lover once she would get bored or tired or just would like to get a new one?<br /><br />Plus, being the Queens lover would limit his possibilities to operate for his own benefit. Mortimer would have been tied up with Isabella as her lover. He would have been under her command 24// and obviously Roger Mortimer was none of that. He wanted as much power for himself as possible and being just a lover boy would have hindered his negotiating powers among the barons. They would have known that Mortimer is just a lover. But if he was not, like I believe, the barons and others knew he was a close ally of the Queen and that gave him more room to make his moves and made him also more powerful in the eyes of the barons and others. <br /><br />And finally: the Church would have never allowed this assumed romance to go on. And the French would have had a field day if they had known anything about this romance between Isabella and Mortimer. They would have used it for max effect when Edward III crossed the channel, from the very first day and beyond. It would have been a propaganda galore for them. But... They said nothing. Why? Because there was nothing to say bout it.sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-51856279056573791252021-02-15T05:20:10.845+00:002021-02-15T05:20:10.845+00:00Once again; great stuff!
Yes, Roger was happily m...Once again; great stuff!<br /><br />Yes, Roger was happily married for decades. Doesn't that ring any bells? Of course he could have had lovers and relationships outside the marriage BUT his wife was there all the way and gave him children by the bushel. And he stayed with her. So they were not in love, did not trust each other? The silence about Mortimer's marriage is very revealing. Those who advocate Isabella romance have to make this disappear because a marriage this long and with so many children was more than likely a happy and strong one. And it would make the Isabella romance even more stupid than what it is.<br /><br />And all these romancers seem to forget one thing; being a royal, born as a royal and being married to a king and becoming a queen was not like getting a job from McDonalds or even from the City bank. Once you were a royal you were a part of sacred bloodline which was traced back to Adam and Eve ad countless of great names of history. Once you became The Queen you were anointed just like Christ because now you ruled the earth on behalf of God with the permission from the God. You were literally a Holy one, semi-divine person, whose presence was such that most people simply took a bow or kneeled down without any one asking them to do so.<br /><br />The divinity and holiness of the royal position and it's power carried for a long time after Isabella. Queen Elizabeth I was in many situations where she had nothing else but her position as the Queen. No money, no army, no powerful protectors, but when she showed up as The Queen, most of her opponents simply reeled back and ran or hid. Just because she was The Queen. Isabella was also The Queen and of the royal French stock which made her even more mysterious and powerful because of her mystical bloodline. She knew all this, she had been educated for her role as the queen and she surely was intelligent enough to use all her powers. Would she have put all that in danger just because she needed some sexual healing? I doubt it very much.<br /><br />I am also annoyed how most romancers diminish her abilities as a politician and strategist. When you look at how she survived trough all of the troubles along her way and died in peace decades later after putting her son to the throne, that shows how smart, clever and skillful politician she really was. Hugh was gone, Mortimer was gone, Edward had disappeared and her son ruled the kingdom. She had survived trough wars, rebellions, intrigues, coup and much more. I don't think it was because she had sex with Mortimer. sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.com