tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post7837350961370244113..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Queen Isabella 1330 to 1358Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-86195576526039622292022-11-08T05:49:01.802+00:002022-11-08T05:49:01.802+00:00Maybe, though without being telepathic, there'...Maybe, though without being telepathic, there's no way to know anyone's motives for sure (and it's not as though people have to do things for one reason only, and it's not as though anyone was likely to forget who she was).Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-26076260214035290112022-11-07T20:07:16.816+00:002022-11-07T20:07:16.816+00:00Isn't that final burial request--wedding cloak...Isn't that final burial request--wedding cloak and husband's heart-- actually a final act of political theater? She wanted to die remembered as dowager queen of England, so needed to re-stress her royal marriage,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-85394612386756815552016-04-19T09:27:32.654+01:002016-04-19T09:27:32.654+01:00Hi Steve! No, unfortunately the Greyfriars church ...Hi Steve! No, unfortunately the Greyfriars church was destroyed in the Great Fire of 1666, rebuilt then destroyed again during the Second World War. Isabella's grave is therefore lost. Edward II's still survives at Gloucester Cathedral, and Hugh Despenser the Younger's at Tewkesbury Abbey.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-53734507165425495892016-04-19T08:52:05.777+01:002016-04-19T08:52:05.777+01:00Is Isabella s grave still there if so is it marked...Is Isabella s grave still there if so is it marked! Did any other graves survive..curious and fascinated SteveAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13317837333029555559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59254326976640372902015-07-20T05:11:45.466+01:002015-07-20T05:11:45.466+01:00That is really excellent news! I'd love to kno...That is really excellent news! I'd love to know more!<br /><br />Edward II, sadly, died intestate. His father made one on Crusade before his accession to the throne in 1272 and never updated it, interestingly enough.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-17642576286679506082015-07-19T18:48:59.180+01:002015-07-19T18:48:59.180+01:00You and your audience will be interested to know t...You and your audience will be interested to know that there is a lot going on right now with regard to her material belongings, which is fun. Another question for you - Did Edward have a will? I had been working on the assumption that he did not, yet, and that everything essentially was disposed by Isabella and her advisors after his death. I haven't found a mention in the published sources but I am an art historian, not a historian, so I am not always confident!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05191908287441802797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-14890498976503617882015-07-19T05:29:09.119+01:002015-07-19T05:29:09.119+01:00It hasn't, unfortunately. My goodness, I reall...It hasn't, unfortunately. My goodness, I really should go back and edit some old posts when I have better info and knowledge. :) Edward III is solemnly called Isabella's heir in her IPM, 'Sir Edward, now king of England...' :-)<br /><br />Good luck with your research! I must write a post sometime about Isabella's books and so on.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-78119059413019954512015-07-18T22:20:06.208+01:002015-07-18T22:20:06.208+01:00Thanks! I've requested that volume. I know wha...Thanks! I've requested that volume. I know what happened to her books, but am working now on other objects like reliquaries and tapestries etc. I think it was your use of the term 'will' that surprised me as I did not know that a proper will had survived.<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05191908287441802797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-31867236365194625052015-07-18T13:06:17.096+01:002015-07-18T13:06:17.096+01:00Hi, sorry for the delay in replying! I was oversta...Hi, sorry for the delay in replying! I was overstating it with 'most' but some of Isabella's lands reverted to her grandson the prince of Wales - it's in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem 1352-1360. Actually, now I'm looking at Isabella in greater detail for my bio of her, I'd probably rewrite quite a lot of this post, but anyway...:-)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-71357630444243319052015-07-11T04:23:29.353+01:002015-07-11T04:23:29.353+01:00Hi Kathryn, in this post you wrote that "In 1...Hi Kathryn, in this post you wrote that "In 1337, Edward III gave Isabella permission to make her will, leaving her possessions to anyone she chose. (She left most of them to her eldest grandchild Edward of Woodstock, to whom she was very close.)" Where is this documented - are you referring to the 1358 inventory? Thank you!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05191908287441802797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-11430603278912150692013-12-08T07:29:59.242+00:002013-12-08T07:29:59.242+00:00He cared for his father too. He was only 13 when ...He cared for his father too. He was only 13 when Isabella kept him little more than a prisoner in France (as Ian Mortimer points out in his Perfect King) and not operating under his own agency.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-36227593039893551072013-12-07T21:48:13.101+00:002013-12-07T21:48:13.101+00:00Have you read Ian Mortimer's book on Roger? Th...Have you read Ian Mortimer's book on Roger? The Greatest Traitor? He goes into great detail about the discussion of what to do with Edward after his abdication and Isabella's involvment. According to Mortimer there is evidence that Isabella did not want Edward dead and still cared for him. Chapter 13, page 196. (remember she did once say she was going to return to him when she was in France but Mortimer quashed it).<br /><br />As for EIII and his relationship with his mother, when EII ordered him home from France he refused to go and told his father he was going to stay with Isabella because of her distress. Obviously he cared deeply for his mother. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-39217904951141649572013-09-27T16:01:38.711+01:002013-09-27T16:01:38.711+01:00Shame really if that's the case, as the Agnes ...Shame really if that's the case, as the Agnes Mortimer connection makes it more interesting!Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-82641536042528909562013-09-27T15:39:59.873+01:002013-09-27T15:39:59.873+01:00Hi Laura! Thanks for the great comment! I think ...Hi Laura! Thanks for the great comment! I think you're absolutely right, and wow, this had never even occurred to me before. I'd just read in Doherty that it was certainly Agnes, but of course I should have realised that it's impossible to trust anything he says :/. (Especially when he comes up with mawkish nonsense like 'Isabella and Agnes became great friends and hardly ever parted'.) It makes far more sense for it to be Marie, part of that generation born in the 1290s/early 1300s, and certainly Marie was great friends with Elizabeth de Clare. I seem to remember Elizabeth's biographer Frances Underhill mentioning Marie, and perhaps Isabella too, later on in Elizabeth's life - must check. Thanks for leaving the comment and letting me know!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-78698378200067437582013-09-27T15:35:00.134+01:002013-09-27T15:35:00.134+01:00Hi Kathryn
Just rereading this interesting post a...Hi Kathryn<br /><br />Just rereading this interesting post about Queen Isabella's latter days. I've been wondering about something and wonder what you think!<br /><br />Though the Countess of Pembroke was her most frequent visitor in 1357/8, as in E A Bond's "Notice of the Last Days", can we be certain this was Mortimer's daughter Agnes? The reasons I would question it is because in the CCR Agnes is referred to as "late wife of Lawrence de Hastings Earl of Pembroke", e.g. on Feb 24 1358; and on other occasions in the CCR, e.g. on Feb 15 1358, Marie de st Pol is referred to as the Countess of Pembroke.<br /><br />Also, Agnes' second husband John Hakelut may well have been one of that old Herefordshire family, so if her home was in that county it surely would have been difficult for her to pop to see Isabella in Hertford frequently. Whereas the other Countess of Pembroke had homes in London and Hertford...<br /><br />I know it adds a piquancy when we read of Isabella's last days to think that she had the devotion of one of Mortimer's daughters, but to me it doesn't ring true. Though a friendship with Marie de St Pol hasn't been proved, I think it more likely she was the visitor, being of a similar age to Isabella, as was her other great friend the Countess of Warren.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-25023757341971806252012-03-16T09:56:57.071+00:002012-03-16T09:56:57.071+00:00Hi! No, haven't seen it yet as am not in the U...Hi! No, haven't seen it yet as am not in the UK, but hope to soon. I wasn't terribly impressed with the chapter in her book about Isabella - it's not bad and I've read far worse, but I've also read far better. I've been told she reported the red-hot poker death - that and Isabella's jewels, gah - that's two myths she's repeated on prime-time TV already. :-( Would love to know how she 'knows' about Edward's sexual relationships!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-70095982606131108942012-03-16T09:34:45.709+00:002012-03-16T09:34:45.709+00:00Hi Kathryn,
Did you see BBC4 prog. on 'The She...Hi Kathryn,<br />Did you see BBC4 prog. on 'The She Wolves' by Dr. Helen Corser or are you familiar with her work?<br />I was quite interested that she stated that Isabella's jewels were given to Gaveston and that Edward and Gaveston were undoubtedly lovers but Despencer was not!!! Not the views held by Prof. Seymour Phillips and odd she never mentioned any doubt over Edward's death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-88275721568844183892010-10-17T08:38:58.715+01:002010-10-17T08:38:58.715+01:00Thanks a lot for the info, Anne!Thanks a lot for the info, Anne!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42196376550629422122010-10-16T21:21:17.162+01:002010-10-16T21:21:17.162+01:00Hello -- this is a comment about Edward III 'o...Hello -- this is a comment about Edward III 'ordering' Isabella's tomb in February 1359. According to F. D. Blackley, that date for a quit-claim from Agnes de Ramesay, where she acknowledges final payment "for making the tomb of the queen by a certain agreement made with me by the council of the queen in her lifetime." So Edward didn't order his mother's tomb -- she did, or someone in her administration.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05191908287441802797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-54874585848263311602010-05-29T15:41:19.555+01:002010-05-29T15:41:19.555+01:00I often wonder how Isabella felt having a beloved ...I often wonder how Isabella felt having a beloved son execute the only man she had truly loved and who had undoubtedly saved her from the clutches of the vicious Despencer the younger.<br />Did she really ever forgive him?<br />And what were her true feelings towards her husband? <br />I can't help but find it somewhat bizarre that she was buried in her wedding dress holding her husband's heart given how their relationship had ended.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-82615339827489209182010-03-17T14:59:23.947+00:002010-03-17T14:59:23.947+00:00Maybe Edward 111 was in possession of facts that r...Maybe Edward 111 was in possession of facts that remain unwritten and undocumented that Isabella was in fact the one who arranged for her husband's 'escape'. In medieval times religion held more sway than we in the 21st century can ever imagine. It would not be beyond the realms of possibility that Isabella acted to save her husband's life, and in so doing, saving the soul of Mortimer from eternal damnation. That is why her son included her into the inner circle of his family. It may answer a lot of speculation - for even if he did not wish to face the fact that Isabella could have been a merciless mother, he would not have allowed his son and future king to be in anyway influenced by her - surely?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-87761714908946081272009-01-10T16:24:00.000+00:002009-01-10T16:24:00.000+00:00Does anyone know where the inventory of Isabella's...Does anyone know where the inventory of Isabella's belongings at death cane be found?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-85825334111409481052007-07-16T19:48:00.000+01:002007-07-16T19:48:00.000+01:00"Wouldn't it be great to find out what Ed III and ..."Wouldn't it be great to find out what Ed III and Isa said to each other after Mortimer's execution? Oh, to be a fly on the wall...;)"<BR/>That's what historical fiction is for - we'll never know, so you can fill in something plausible :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-31280082322615900232007-07-16T13:22:00.000+01:002007-07-16T13:22:00.000+01:00Thanks, Liam! Wouldn't it be great to find out wh...Thanks, Liam! Wouldn't it be great to find out what Ed III and Isa said to each other after Mortimer's execution? Oh, to be a fly on the wall...;)<BR/><BR/>There's a theory that Ed III spared Mortimer hanging, drawing and quartering because of Isa's influence, or at least so as not to 'exacerbate her terrible distress', to quote Alison Weir. That's possible, but Ed III had spent most of the previous 5 years with Mortimer, and may have balked at inflicting that on a man he knew so well. And Mortimer's execution was designed to be deeply humiliating (he was treated as a common criminal and hanged naked), so Ed can't have been trying to spare his mother's feelings that much.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67210070984033231152007-07-16T00:11:00.000+01:002007-07-16T00:11:00.000+01:00Good post! I agree with those who say Edward III w...Good post! I agree with those who say Edward III was most likely 'in denial' about his mother's complicity in Edward II's death. It wouldn't be easy for anyone, king or not, to face up to the idea that their mother was an associate in the murder of their father. He probably just pushed it to the back of his mind and convinced himself that in her 'womanly weakness' Isabella had been easily ensnared by Mortimer's machinations. I wonder if Isabella made any kind of protest about how Mortimer was treated? Somehow I doubt it!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.com