tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post8431048598568888570..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Some Anglo-Scots ConnectionsKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59573990685062919992015-01-12T16:03:33.085+00:002015-01-12T16:03:33.085+00:00"the Stone of Scone, traditionally used in th..."the Stone of Scone, traditionally used in the coronations of the Kings of Scotland (it remained in Westminster Abbey until returned to Scone in 1996, exactly seven hundred years after its removal)"<br /><br />You'll be shocked to know that fact provokes a question :-D. Though I imagine it was a nice gesture, why return the stone to Scone? As long as the British monarchy reins over Scotland, it just seems to me that it should remain underneath "Edward's" coronation throne. Is there a specific reason why it was sent back?<br /><br />Splendid post, Kathryn! And all the Isabels/Isabellas notwithstanding, you never lost me once. Your gift for comprehensible genealogy won the day yet again.MRatsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-32343591507911213652014-01-04T16:46:30.118+00:002014-01-04T16:46:30.118+00:00Oh Kathryn. Schoolgirl error regarding the Counte...Oh Kathryn. Schoolgirl error regarding the Countess of Buchan. Its one of those hoary old myths that she was suspended from a tower in some sort of birdcage. You only have to go outside in Berwick on a day like today to know she'd never have survived for 4 years! Priamary sources say the cage was INSIDE a tower. Otherwise keep up the good work. See my blog post (and link if you like).<br />http://berwicktimelines.tumblr.com/post/44859470048/countess-of-buchan-a-tale-for-international-womensAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08035208401284847353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-85014355457829438842010-07-05T00:42:09.946+01:002010-07-05T00:42:09.946+01:00anyone know who isabella la converse was, god daug...anyone know who isabella la converse was, god daughter of isabella, queen of englandGoing Homehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11112804676967312214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-65619550138327802192010-07-05T00:42:09.945+01:002010-07-05T00:42:09.945+01:00anyone know who isabella la converse was, god daug...anyone know who isabella la converse was, god daughter of isabella, queen of englandGoing Homehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11112804676967312214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-24843790216721377312010-03-18T08:45:04.447+00:002010-03-18T08:45:04.447+00:00Good luck with the ancestor hunt, David!Good luck with the ancestor hunt, David!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-28514857274954344342010-03-18T05:40:28.030+00:002010-03-18T05:40:28.030+00:00Argggh, how do I post? Can't a man find out hi...Argggh, how do I post? Can't a man find out his heritage without getting stabbed in the back? David CummingsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07682423418647472619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-37195199991740241732010-03-18T05:34:08.766+00:002010-03-18T05:34:08.766+00:00I am a Comyn,...err, Cummings, trying to connect t...I am a Comyn,...err, Cummings, trying to connect to my past. All I know is my grandfather was born in Ireland. Maybe someday with the ole DNA!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07682423418647472619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-20433664952919789122010-03-10T07:55:01.319+00:002010-03-10T07:55:01.319+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.炒米粉Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846974192729945304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-55878261943606213102009-11-29T06:17:25.308+00:002009-11-29T06:17:25.308+00:00History can be very deceptive...especially in a ti...History can be very deceptive...especially in a time where alliances and loyalties are threatened. I, too, thought, how awful that Henry Beaumont retrieved the Countess of Buchan, Isabel, from confinement. Then, I researched on. Alice Comyn, Henry's wife, undoubtedly was an acquaintance of Isabel. Alice, the Earl of Buchan's neice, and Isabel were co-heiresses of Buchan.<br />Whether or not, the earl forgave Isabel is unknown. However, the last recordings seem to be favorable to Isabel. Alice's and Henry's last child was named after Isabel. There is also a family connection with David, the Earl of Atholl, who married one of Henry's and Alice's daughters. David's father was captured and executed at the same time Isabel was captured. The Earl of Atholl was a close confident of Robert the Bruce. Perhaps, these loyalties were still established. And, that is why Isabel was not asked for following Bannockburn. Because, she was already in his "care." That would be nice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-845425908684386362009-08-16T07:19:16.008+01:002009-08-16T07:19:16.008+01:00Isabel is last mentioned on 28 April 1313 (not rea...Isabel is last mentioned on 28 April 1313 (not really 'far before 1314'), when she was delivered to the custody of Henry Beaumont: "To Edmund de Hastinges, keeper of the town of Berwick-on-Tweed and constable of the castle of the same. Order to deliver Isabella, late the wife of John, earl of Boghan [Buchan], to Henry de Bello Monte or Willam de Felyng, his attorney, to be guarded by him as the king has enjoined him." (Calendar of Close Rolls 1307-1313, p. 529; Foedera vol II, i, p. 209)<br /><br />Mary Bruce was released from Roxburgh Castle on 30 March 1310 (Cal Close Rolls 1307-1313, p. 203; Foedera, p. 105)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63937747066644190312009-08-15T23:00:17.838+01:002009-08-15T23:00:17.838+01:00Very late commenting here, but Isabel MacDuff disa...Very late commenting here, but Isabel MacDuff disappeared from the records far before 1314. <br /><br />Had she been one of the prisoners exchanged, which is well documented, she would have been mentioned. She had been an extremely important prisoner. <br /><br />There is in fact no real record of her EVER leaving her prison in Berwick-upon-Tweed. I believe that she died there. Exposed to a Scottish winter it was hardly surprising.<br /><br />Considering that all of the men who were captured (Nigel Bruce and the Earl of Atholl were captured at the same time) were hanged, drawn and quartered, I find it amazing that this would be considered particularly savage. <br /><br />And it's all very well to blame Edward I (I do) but the fact is that Edward II was in no hurry to change their conditions which remained for some years.J. R. Tomlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01109874615059334200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-65125737121428896862007-06-15T13:27:00.000+01:002007-06-15T13:27:00.000+01:00Poor Isabel disappears from the records after Apri...Poor Isabel disappears from the records after April 1313, when she was given into the custody of Henry Beaumont. It's just possible that she may be included among the 'certain other Scots' said to have been released in 1314, but given her notoriety, it's odd that she isn't mentioned by name, if so - or that she doesn't crop up in any Scottish records after 1314, either.<BR/><BR/>Edward I's actions were absolutely dreadful, inexcusable. Even contemplating putting a young girl in a cage at the Tower is awful - and Marjorie may even have suffered this fate for a few weeks, before he relented.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure that all his pointless cruelty achieved was to increase Robert Bruce's (and many others') determination to defeat him.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-10402315455310445402007-06-15T11:24:00.000+01:002007-06-15T11:24:00.000+01:00I didn't know Isabel MacDuff wasn't released after...I didn't know Isabel MacDuff wasn't released after Bannockburn. What a shame. Edward I's treatment of Bruce's women shows him in an extremely poor light, I think. What on earth was he hoping to achieve? It just looks like wanton cruelty, without even the excuse of political necessity.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-28185772810125051752007-06-12T22:04:00.000+01:002007-06-12T22:04:00.000+01:00I'm pretty sure it's something like 'Dun-ic-ah', i...I'm pretty sure it's something like 'Dun-ic-ah', it varies depending on your accent. ;)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-28206997665607064352007-06-12T11:32:00.000+01:002007-06-12T11:32:00.000+01:00Thanks, Liam!My favourite bit is when the de Clare...Thanks, Liam!<BR/>My favourite bit is when the de Clares' half-nephew married their half-sister. ;)<BR/><BR/>How do you pronounce Donnchadh in modern Irish?Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-12200386572378281702007-06-11T22:56:00.000+01:002007-06-11T22:56:00.000+01:00Great post!Lots of unusual things in that family!"...Great post!<BR/><BR/>Lots of unusual things in that family!<BR/><BR/>"His children by Joan were three decades younger than their half-sisters!"<BR/><BR/>"The younger Duncan was probably posthumous, and succeeded his father as Earl of Fife. Duncan and Isabel MacDuff were older than Gilbert, Eleanor, Margaret and Elizabeth de Clare, their half-aunts and uncle."<BR/><BR/>"Isabel definitely married, around 1316 when she was well into her fifties, Maurice de Berkeley, who became Lord Berkeley in 1321."<BR/><BR/>"Joan married Duncan [Donnchadh in Gaelic]"<BR/>On a completely unrelated and irrelevant note, the name Donnchadh is still heard today (in Ireland anyway).<BR/><BR/>"and then because some of the IPMs (Inquisitions Post Mortem) mistakenly named Gilbert's half-sister Isabel de Clare as one of his heirs, instead of his full sister Elizabeth"<BR/>Tsk, even then they had to put up with clerical errors! ;)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-8899500734442626742007-06-10T06:55:00.000+01:002007-06-10T06:55:00.000+01:00Thanks! All the women are well worth reading more...Thanks! All the women are well worth reading more about, I think.<BR/><BR/><I>Girl in a Cage</I> looks like a good read, though it puts Marjorie in a cage at Lanercost, which I'm pretty sure didn't happen.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-2248014093278262362007-06-09T14:35:00.000+01:002007-06-09T14:35:00.000+01:00Fascinating post! I'll have to read up more on som...Fascinating post! I'll have to read up more on some of these ladies.<BR/><BR/>BTW, there's a young-adult novel about Majorie Bruce by Jane Yolen and a co-author called <I>Girl in a Cage</I>.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.com