tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post8785169378495744329..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Household of Edward IIKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-79529005637237657002007-06-08T23:51:00.000+01:002007-06-08T23:51:00.000+01:00The Royal Household employs ~ 1200 staff, see www....The Royal Household employs ~ 1200 staff, see www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page4008.asp<BR/><BR/>But the functions are so different that a comparison is meaninglessEric Aveburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14798868875167454423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-87297031714880704752007-06-08T09:55:00.000+01:002007-06-08T09:55:00.000+01:00Hey Joanne!Yes, I saw it - will be in touch very s...Hey Joanne!<BR/>Yes, I saw it - will be in touch very shortly! :)<BR/><BR/>Love the painting, it's gorgeous! The costumes are so accurate - I especially love Isabella's sideless gown and the 'cauls' (not sure if that's the right name) holding her hair. And the jewelled belts and daggers - wow. Really, it's wonderful!<BR/><BR/>I laughed out loud at the comment on your site: 'omg gay'. Well, um, yeah...honestly, some people!!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-22623523532518768702007-06-07T21:30:00.000+01:002007-06-07T21:30:00.000+01:00Hey there! Did you get my note? http://suburbanbe...Hey there! Did you get my note? <BR/><BR/>http://suburbanbeatnik.livejournal.com/48516.html?thread=73092#t73092 <BR/><BR/>The painting's done! (There's a link in the note.) I'm eager to hear what you think!suburbanbeatnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15628494445950673866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67768405422094528452007-06-07T14:13:00.000+01:002007-06-07T14:13:00.000+01:00Hi Melisende,I did wonder if it might mean 'briber...Hi Melisende,<BR/>I did wonder if it might mean 'briber', and when I googled the word 'bribour', apparently it means 'one who pilfers other people's goods'. But looking at the context, both definitions seem rather out of place: it appears in the same section as the 'lauendrers' and the women responsible for the napery. The two 'bribours' are named as William Plane and Amice Maure - it's also interesting that there's one man and one woman.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the idea, though! :) It's been far too long since I read the Canterbury Tales and the mystery plays.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-46722134403318014022007-06-07T13:28:00.000+01:002007-06-07T13:28:00.000+01:00Alianore,Could the word "bribours" actually be "br...Alianore,<BR/><BR/>Could the word "bribours" actually be "bribers"???<BR/><BR/>Accounting for the translation from ye olde english - or it could have been written phonetically.<BR/><BR/>For example:<BR/><BR/>Chaucer's Canterbury Tale - <BR/>"From the Freres [ie: Friars] Tale":<BR/>"And certeynly he knew of bribours mo"<BR/><BR/>Or from "The York Cycle, Play 46<BR/>Appearance of Our Lady to thomas<BR/>Wefferes"<BR/><BR/>"[line]047 - As brothellis or bribours were belyng and bletyng:"Melisendehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06337295187948663310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67497130656814690672007-06-06T13:32:00.000+01:002007-06-06T13:32:00.000+01:00Yes, The Office is probably the perfect analogy. ...Yes, <I>The Office</I> is probably the perfect analogy. Many engineering and IT companies were almost 100% male until very recently (and still have a preponderance of men).Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-31485587640707309292007-06-04T09:42:00.000+01:002007-06-04T09:42:00.000+01:00Thanks, Kate. If you're interested in this, I'd r...Thanks, Kate. If you're interested in this, I'd recommend C.M. Woolgar's <I>Great Household in Late Medieval England</I> - it's chock-full of info.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-1657586196362200962007-06-04T01:30:00.000+01:002007-06-04T01:30:00.000+01:00Great post. Domestic history is wonderful isn't i...Great post. Domestic history is wonderful isn't it? Especially royal domesticity. You are right, it is hard to fathom what all the servants were doing. I struggle to do the dishes some days so I can't imagine what running a country entails! Thanks Alianore for the glimpse into a fascinating side of life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-18171515522945889622007-06-03T18:24:00.000+01:002007-06-03T18:24:00.000+01:00Thank you, both! Liam: the name used for York in ...Thank you, both! <BR/><BR/>Liam: the name used for York in contemp documents was Euerwik, Everwyk, etc - 'Deuerwik' is 'of York'. They didn't use the apostrophe then - 'king of England' was written 'roy/roi Dengleterre' not 'd'Angleterre' as in modern French. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the info on the present queen's household - I must check out the site.<BR/><BR/>Carla: I'm sure you're right about the squabbling and bickering over titles, and the endless jockeying for power and trying to get yourself noticed by those in high positions. Quite fascinating to contemplate, really. I do wonder what differences having an almost entirely male household might have made over a mixed-sex one.<BR/><BR/>Kind of reminds me of the TV series <I>The Office</I>, where Gareth calls himself 'assistant regional manager' and Brent corrects it to 'assistant to the regional manager' - plus the quarrels that Gareth and Tim have about whether team leader 'beats' senior sales rep. Things don't change much, do they...I can just see Ed II's servants saying things like 'squire under-usher beats valet chief pantler any day, mate'. :-)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-8041318335468888692007-06-03T17:00:00.000+01:002007-06-03T17:00:00.000+01:00Fascinating post, Alianore! As I understand it, s...Fascinating post, Alianore! As I understand it, servants in any big household take rank very seriously, a bit like the way that people in a corporate hierarchy jealously study each other's job titles and perks. There's a line from the Brish TV series <I>Upstairs Downstairs</I>, which depicts a fairly modest upper-middle-class Victorian household, where a girl knocks at the door to say she is applying for the job of house-parlourmaid and the servant answering the door says, as haughtily as a duchess, "<I>Under</I> house-parlourmaid. <I>I</I> am the house-parlourmaid." In a properly posh household, of course, the housemaid(s) and parlourmaid(s) would have been separate jobs; this is a modest household that can't afford to employ both types of maid and so has hyphenated the positions together to save money. The girls wear housemaid uniform in the morning and parlourmaid uniform in the afternoon. I bet there were similar squabbles over relative rank in medieval households from the king down. (Which possibly answers what they all did all day - they bickered and played internal politics. Plus ca change... I really think the best analogy for a medieval court or manor is a modern corporation)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-21193368766602918532007-06-03T16:43:00.000+01:002007-06-03T16:43:00.000+01:00Very interesting post! 'Deuerwik' must be the old ...Very interesting post! 'Deuerwik' must be the old word for York, is it?<BR/><BR/>The current Queen's household is divided into five departments - the Private Secretary's Office, the Master of the Household's Department, the Privy Purse and Treasurer's Office, the Lord Chamberlain's Office, and the Royal Collection Department. More info can be found on the monarchy's official website.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, I've heard that even today, royal servants have a very strict hierarchy and take rank (even among themselves) extremely seriously!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-37423878518548256642007-06-02T16:32:00.000+01:002007-06-02T16:32:00.000+01:00Thanks, Daphne. I also wonder how many staff the ...Thanks, Daphne. I also wonder how many staff the Queen has - that would be an interesting comparison.<BR/><BR/>Great households of the Middle Ages are such a fascinating topic. I really do find the sheer numbers of servants mind-boggling! ;)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-91828240080956883692007-06-02T16:03:00.000+01:002007-06-02T16:03:00.000+01:00That is really fascinating. I wonder how the numb...That is really fascinating. I wonder how the numbers compare to the number of staff the current Queen (or even the President of the US) has that keeps their households running.Daphnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12838072651419264066noreply@blogger.com