tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post1184973400650621775..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: The Abduction of Eleanor Despenser, 1329Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-45551667667880040642022-08-06T17:35:54.115+01:002022-08-06T17:35:54.115+01:00I think Zouche may have been favored more than it ...I think Zouche may have been favored more than it looks by the Dispensers,William de Ercalewe(Hedley) and Eleanor Burnell. Joyce Zouche was the brother of Alan de Zouche who had lost his Scottish lands after his loyalty to Edward first. He was married to Elena de Quincy daughter of roger Earl of Winchester. The Quinceys where close to the Hedleys via a Peverell line. It was William de Ercalewes ancester Pagan de Hedley who was given Tranent in 1170 by<br />Robert de Quincy Justiciar of Lothian. The Quinceys are also connected with the Despencers.<br />Ferrers and Gray also crop up. Our man Ercalewe(Hedley) was probably connected to the Despencers not just via the Burnells but via Eleonors great grandfather Hugh Despencer Sheriff of Shropshire and Staffordshire (1223). William de Hedley was deputy sheriif for William Fitzalan 2nd (1190-1201). It is possible that he then went on to serve Despencer. Our man william de Ercalewe(Hedley) was Sheriff (1326 a year to remember). I think Zouche may have been torn between loyalty to Mortimer and to the Desoencers. Taking his mothers name may give us a clue. If only I could get that spare part to my time machine.Alan Hedleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16492843101953091611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-70131916382833955542018-04-27T07:21:50.221+01:002018-04-27T07:21:50.221+01:00No - three of the four abductions I've written...No - three of the four abductions I've written about (Eleanor Despenser in 1329, Margaret Audley in 1336 and Alice de Lacy in 1336) occurred during Edward III's reign. The criminal gangs the Folvilles and Coterels were also active during Edward III's reign, for example.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-34401165864785739122018-04-26T23:21:53.623+01:002018-04-26T23:21:53.623+01:00Have you found that abductions occurred more frequ...Have you found that abductions occurred more frequently when "weaker" kings were on the throne? Were they less likely to defy kings who were more respected/feared?Phyllis Eddingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13170434458293756967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-44472947040534663892018-04-26T17:55:06.275+01:002018-04-26T17:55:06.275+01:00I would think that it was most unusual, yes - beca...I would think that it was most unusual, yes - because of the immense wealth of the de Clare inheritance (Gilbert de Clare, earl of Gloucester was the third richest man in England after Edward II and Thomas of Lancaster).Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-24959628220096436742018-04-26T17:49:56.238+01:002018-04-26T17:49:56.238+01:00Is this an unusually high number of abductions for...Is this an unusually high number of abductions for one family? Or, was it something special in light of the great wealth involved. Also, did the church ever do anything? I have read that, by the 1470s, such marriages could be annulled, but I don't know when the church authorized such annulments. <br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-72779882448596653162018-04-24T18:53:12.105+01:002018-04-24T18:53:12.105+01:00Medieval England was not a happy place for women o...Medieval England was not a happy place for women of upper classes. They were used and abused and seen as pieces in a game of social advancement or wealth etc. I read years ago from some book that commoners married more often out of love than upper classes. <br /><br />That being said, it does not mean that noble women could not find love in marriages. Just look at Isabella and Edward. Before it all went down hill, they at least appeared to be in love, so much so that the French saw Edward rescue Isabella from burning building in the nude. Quite a few kings would have wanted to appear Naturel but obviously Edward was thinking about his wife more than appearances.sami parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-39008349270687960552018-04-23T12:03:20.049+01:002018-04-23T12:03:20.049+01:00Thanks, Jo! I've never been to Jersey, but the...Thanks, Jo! I've never been to Jersey, but the castle sounds great and I'd love to see it. You probably saw my post a few weeks ago about Edward II's archers - eight of them, and four were called John. :-D No wonder there were so many nicknames for men called John.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-86428062402312441932018-04-23T11:33:15.727+01:002018-04-23T11:33:15.727+01:00Great post. I hadn't realised Eleanor was forc...Great post. I hadn't realised Eleanor was forced to marry 'that' William la Zouche! It makes the whole thing even more appalling. Also, John Grey is total news to me so thanks for that too. <br /><br />On a different note entirely, I visited Mont Orgeuil (aka Gorey Castle, Jersey) at the weekend where they had a display of the names of archers etc who were stationed there in the fourteenth century. It made me smile to see all the William / Guillaumes and Jean / Johns vastly outnumbering any other names. If you're ever in Jersey, it's a fantastic castle to visit.<br /><br />JoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-38081186148095811912018-04-20T16:25:26.191+01:002018-04-20T16:25:26.191+01:00Yes, the same one. It's a little confusing tho...Yes, the same one. It's a little confusing though as there were several other William Zouches around!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-24104764975068502652018-04-20T16:19:17.468+01:002018-04-20T16:19:17.468+01:00William Zouche was the same William Zouche who was...William Zouche was the same William Zouche who was involved in the Earl of Kent's plot, wasn't he.?Caroline Newarknoreply@blogger.com