tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post1450790776774670078..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Edward II's Feuds With Bishops In The 1320sKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-32800608609254955482014-03-05T19:38:11.065+00:002014-03-05T19:38:11.065+00:00@Carla:
I think it was a family carachter. Edward...@Carla:<br /><br />I think it was a family carachter. Edward I was one grumpy guy if he got in to that mood, just ask the welsh or the scotts. Edward III was also ready to get it on if he saw fit, regardless against whom and where and when. But unlike them Edward II, who never wanted to be a king as kid but had to take the crown, did not see the big picture or the political dimensions of his deeds.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-86265464562912434472014-02-19T19:26:07.843+00:002014-02-19T19:26:07.843+00:00Indeed, one does wonder what Edward II was thinkin...Indeed, one does wonder what Edward II was thinking of... Henry has raised the same question that occurred to me: could Edward's erratic behaviour have some cause other than, or in addition to, political ineptitude? I have sometimes wondered if the infamous Plantagenet temper was just a lack of self-control by spoilt men who were (too) used to getting their own way, or if there might have been an element of mental illness, perhaps something like bipolar disorder, in it in some cases. Or, given the popularity of combat in battle and tourney, some sort of brain injury. Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-71591828045465457702014-02-16T17:22:32.893+00:002014-02-16T17:22:32.893+00:00Hi Kathryn,
One possible reason for Edward turnin...Hi Kathryn,<br /><br />One possible reason for Edward turning against John Hothum could have been his earlier association with Roger Mortimer. According to Ian Mortimer's book "Greatest Traitor", Hothum was with Roger Mortimer in Ireland in 1315, and later Mortimer made him an executor of some of his estates. <br /><br />Given Edward's antipathy to Mortimer in 1324, could that debt of £2,000 have had something to do with Mortimer's escape, and Edward's suspicion that Hothum might have assisted it in some way? John Hothum appears to have been much closer to Roger Mortimer than either John Droxford or Henry Burghersh, so why didn't Edward complain about his possible treachery to Pope John XXII? <br /><br />One other possibility - was it Hugh Despenser who fell out with some of these bishops, and Edward felt obliged to support his favourite? Both John Hothum and John Stratford had to pay fines to Hugh Despenser rather than the king. Just a thought!Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-104647281023098892014-02-16T07:24:32.987+00:002014-02-16T07:24:32.987+00:00Thank you again for another fascinating piece. I h...Thank you again for another fascinating piece. I hope repeated questions are OK! <br />Do you think Edward II was a changed man in any way in the 1320s (personally, psychologically, or politically, or in some other way)? From your article, I wondered if there was a new pattern of confrontational or irascible behavior in these years, or is this all down to the Despensers, or just par for the course with a Plantagenet sense of temper? Best wishes, Henry<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-47721791582048810522014-02-15T19:00:05.268+00:002014-02-15T19:00:05.268+00:00Well, he's not the only king to fall out with ...Well, he's not the only king to fall out with his bishops - and he didn't suffer the serious repercussions that, say Henry II, or even John, did. Becoming a bishop was all about politics, not dedication to religion. Undoubtedly they were powerful foes. Poaching on bishop's land with Piers as a prince seems tame compared to the 1320s:>Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-71939653783058876222014-02-15T15:20:36.660+00:002014-02-15T15:20:36.660+00:00Sami, the German emperors reached a point where th...Sami, the German emperors reached a point where they didn't care much, either. But the first time it came a bit as a shock and forced Heinrich IV to kneel in the snow at Canossa, else his enemies would have been free to kill him. He'd made a bit many of those and the excommunication was the final straw. He should not have adresses a letter to Pope Gregory with the words, "to the bishop Hildebrand (Gregory's former name)', no matter how pissed off he was. :-)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-12441349540446090472014-02-15T07:56:28.209+00:002014-02-15T07:56:28.209+00:00Well, Robert the Bruce was also excommunicated an...Well, Robert the Bruce was also excommunicated and he wasn't much bothered about it. He kne that the frenach king would need him in his powerplays towards England and that he controlled the french popes. <br /><br />For some reason Edward did not fully grasped that you can not fight at half speed against no one. You either wipe them out or don't. He was mad as hell to these church men, but still hesitated. He went too far but not all the way. <br /><br />These men were men of power, wealth, their own estates and troops, international connections etc. You do not make them mad at you and leave them in position from which they can hurt you. <br /><br />He did.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42907201575693704602014-02-14T18:29:02.286+00:002014-02-14T18:29:02.286+00:00He should join the rank of German emperors from th...He should join the rank of German emperors from the 11th to 14th century. :-) Pretty much all of them managed to get themselves excommunicated by the pope at some point. Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-51839688550180412282014-02-14T14:47:05.586+00:002014-02-14T14:47:05.586+00:00Some great insights, Sami, thank you! Really appr...Some great insights, Sami, thank you! Really appreciate your thoughts. His advisers were the Despensers, not sure who else, maybe the earl of Arundel, a handful of others.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-78987322249139914552014-02-14T14:41:06.127+00:002014-02-14T14:41:06.127+00:00One thing that could explain some of this suicidal...One thing that could explain some of this suicidal behavior is in his advisors at this time. Who were they and could they have influenced him acting this way? And if then how much?<br /><br />That being said, I think this is Edward at his most naked. I think the Contrarian uprising was a huge shock to him and after that he was very much frightened and angry, and as we know fearful men make stupid mistakes at ease. He propably did not know to whom he could trust anymore and lashed out this way and that suspecting people (in some cases correctly) but instead of being ice cold king like his enemy up north or even his own father, both of whom dealt very carefully with their enemies (imagined or real), he let his emotions run amok.<br /><br />He was propably very frustrated too in as he had not seen the rebellion coming or who might come up with such a plot. <br /><br />What ever his motives were, these feuds show why even though he plenty of good qualities in modern eyes, Edward was not a "good king". He was too human, even in his failures.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.com