tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post2792848193894305560..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Edward II And His Niece – An Affair?Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-71856195908295725702020-12-23T23:24:17.791+00:002020-12-23T23:24:17.791+00:00Hello Anonymous. Do you happen to have any Underhi...Hello Anonymous. Do you happen to have any Underhill in your family tree? . I was told that my family were related to Edward ll in some way. Would be nice to find out in some way. Amanda Richardsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-28516365733437948192010-10-05T00:56:37.001+01:002010-10-05T00:56:37.001+01:00Kathryn, Thank you very much for all the time &...Kathryn, Thank you very much for all the time & effort you have put into the research & the postings. Edward ll is my husband's 20th great grandfather, so all this wealth of information is more appreciated than you can imagine. Thank you very much. GOD Bless.<br />Karen TAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-88451925846074019542010-10-05T00:54:54.169+01:002010-10-05T00:54:54.169+01:00Kathryn, Thank you very much for all the time &...Kathryn, Thank you very much for all the time & effort you have put into the research & the postings. Edward ll is my husband's 20th great grandfather, so all this wealth of information is more appreciated than you can imagine. Thank you very much. GOD Bless.<br />Karen TAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-70618019405281805162007-09-06T04:12:00.000+01:002007-09-06T04:12:00.000+01:00This is one I'd love to know the answer to! On the...This is one I'd love to know the answer to! On the whole, I tend not to believe they were lovers (on a long-term basis, anyway), given Edward III's generous treatment of Eleanor after the fall of Mortimer.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-47673093074537139962007-09-04T13:04:00.000+01:002007-09-04T13:04:00.000+01:00It's a very good point to make. I just wonder why...It's a very good point to make. I just wonder why nobody in England used the narrative of incest, if it was intended as a political accusation. In 1322/23, when the story first appeared in Hainault, England and Hainault were on good terms. Ed was not Count William's enemy then. Which doesn't necessarily make the story true, but there wasn't any real reason why Ed should be attacked with made-up stories of sex scandals. <BR/><BR/>And as Hugh was Ed's nephew by marriage, accusing Ed of an affair with him might have covered the incest angle (not sure, though).<BR/><BR/>I'm sure that Hugh at least knew how hated he was, even if the others didn't - in 1324, there was a plot to kill him by black magic, he knew that Roger Mortimer was planning to have him assassinated, and in 1325, he did everything he could to stop Ed leaving England (to pay homage to Charles IV for Gascony and Ponthieu) because someone would kill him as soon as he was separated from Edward. Ahhh, power politics. ;) But the rarefied bubble description fits the others very well!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-90538524446211074642007-09-04T12:47:00.000+01:002007-09-04T12:47:00.000+01:00Gabriele makes a good point that allegations of se...Gabriele makes a good point that allegations of sexual scandal were a standard method of attacking one's enemies. Richard III was accused of wanting to marry his niece, and wasn't Eleanor of Aquitaine accused of having an affair with a young uncle when she was married to the king of France? The tabloid press has a long and scurrilous history....<BR/><BR/>I wonder if either Edward and Hugh, or Roger Mortimer and Isabella, really did realise how hated they were? It's easy for people in high office to live in a rarified bubble and ignore anything they don't want to hear. You see the same thing sometimes with modern politicians - anyone remember Margaret Thatcher saying she was going to go "on and on and on" as if she had no comprehension that not everyone would agree that was such a good idea.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-83319696889810339372007-09-02T05:49:00.000+01:002007-09-02T05:49:00.000+01:00Very true, Gabriele. I didn't mention it here, bu...Very true, Gabriele. I didn't mention it here, but there's a really interesting debate about contemporary accusations of sodomy, used as a political weapon. For example, the Bishop of Hereford accused Ed II of being a sodomite and a tyrant in October 1326, and then there were the accusations against the Templars a few years earlier, for example. Then there's the whole debate about what 'sodomy' meant. :)<BR/><BR/>There's probably enough material to write an entire dissertation - also, Ed being accused of degeneracy in 1326/7, what this meant, how much of it was true and how much was propaganda...There are a couple of fascinating articles about all this in <I>The Reign of Edward II: New Perspectives</I>, published last year.<BR/><BR/>A few modern historians give cautious credence to the story that Ed had an affair with Eleanor.<BR/><BR/>As Hugh was Chamberlain and thus controlled access to Ed, in person and by writing, I sometimes wonder if Ed really knew how bad things were, or if Hugh kept a lot of things from him. But yes, he definitely wasn't stupid, so by 1325, surely he must have known how hated he and Hugh were. Same with Isa by 1329/30 - she and Mortimer were becoming hated, and she wouldn't send him away either, or make him change his behaviour.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-57764331902414050952007-09-01T22:46:00.000+01:002007-09-01T22:46:00.000+01:00All sorts of sexual vices (homosexuality, incest, ...All sorts of sexual vices (homosexuality, incest, rape, etc.) were part of the image of a Bad Ruler since Roman historiography. I wonder how much it played into the way Edward is described (Henry IV of Germany fe. was another victim of that sort of slander and most historians today agree that a lot of it was made up to follow the <I>topos</I>).<BR/><BR/>Though there may be some truth about his affair with Hugh, because it's the best way to explain how utterly dependant Ed was on him, despite all the problems that came out of it - I mean, Ed wasn't stupid, he must have seen that he was getting more and more unpopular, and yet couldn't stop favouring Hugh.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com