tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post3449077696452787513..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Donald of Mar: a Scottish Earl and his Loyalty to Edward IIKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-1094731084019072062014-12-14T22:06:17.481+00:002014-12-14T22:06:17.481+00:00very interesting reading; ref Treaty of Northampto...very interesting reading; ref Treaty of Northampton wherein no Scotsman could own land in England; no Englishman could own land in Scotland which may be reason Donald was not given land; there may be other exceptions but the only person I know of allowed to hold land in both was James Douglas, the Good Sir James who before he left Scotland had Fawdon retd to him which only further angered those who had had to give up land/titles in one or the otherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-83608067165603801592007-03-30T10:04:00.000+01:002007-03-30T10:04:00.000+01:00Hi Liam - no, such harsh behaviour towards noble w...Hi Liam - no, such harsh behaviour towards noble women definitely wasn't usual at the time. I suppose it shows how angry Edward I was at Bruce...Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-4910736902318092502007-03-29T21:48:00.000+01:002007-03-29T21:48:00.000+01:00Wow, Edward I was really severe with the Mar/Bruce...Wow, Edward I was really severe with the Mar/Bruce women, wasn't he? Surely that kind of treatment for noble women wasn't common at the time??Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-81659856630321977192007-03-28T13:27:00.000+01:002007-03-28T13:27:00.000+01:00Susan - thanks! It's a shame for Ed that he inspi...Susan - thanks! It's a shame for Ed that he inspired negative feelings in most people, and intense love and loyalty in only a few.<BR/><BR/>Carla - unfortunately I haven't been able to find any other references to the incident - the only other mention I can find of any of the men involved is in 1318, when Ralph de Thedmershe was pardoned for adhering to Thomas of Lancaster. It does sound as though they were trying to free Donald.<BR/><BR/>Gabriele - any plotbunnies about the relationship between Ed and Donald?? :) Agree with you about Hugh's relationship with Ed. There are quite a few references to Ed giving out jewels, valuable cloth etc etc to his friends and family, but the records are far from complete. It's very odd, for example, that there are no refs at all to the marriage of Ed's half-brother Thomas, or the births of any of Thomas's children. The births of many of Ed's other nieces and nephews are marked by expensive gifts, and generous cash grants to the messengers who brought news of the births.<BR/><BR/>Ed did give Donald a manor in Northamptonshire - which Donald forfeited in 1327 because of 'his adherence to the Scots'. Isabella promptly granted it to Ed's jailor John Maltravers.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-35981993680256473072007-03-27T19:31:00.000+01:002007-03-27T19:31:00.000+01:00That's very interesting that Edward could inspire ...That's very interesting that Edward could inspire so much love in someone that he would forego his inheritance in Scotland to return to a place where he came as hostage years before. <BR/><BR/>I get a feeling that Gaveston's and Donald's love was genuine while Hugh played on Edward's feelings for personal gains. Sure, Gaveston got a lot out of the relationship, but he didn't have seemed to ask for it, at least in the beginning. And some of the spectacular gifts had a double function, to please Gaveston and to piss off Edward's dad. Why else would Edward have made such a public affair of it? Btw, how complete are lists of things like jewels or clothes given away? I can imagine that it was not possible to give Donald land since he was the vassal of the king of Scotland*, but could Edward have given him other things, horses, jewels, expensice clothes that don't appear in the sources?<BR/><BR/>* I have this aspect in <I>Kings and Rebels</I> when Roderic is in the entourage of Duke Heinrich the Lion - the only way Heinrich can show his appreciation of Roderic's advice and battle skills is by gifting him with precious personal items like horses and clothes, because Roderic could not accept a German fief. Such things had a highly symbolic value in Mediaeval society.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-79182797937853114322007-03-27T18:58:00.000+01:002007-03-27T18:58:00.000+01:00That's a peculiar entry in the Rolls for 1311. Is...That's a peculiar entry in the Rolls for 1311. Is there any more information about it? It almost sounds as if Ralph and Oliver kidnapped Donald or helped him to escape or something. Very strange.<BR/><BR/>It must say something about Edward's character that Donald was so devoted to him.<BR/><BR/>By the way, there's a theory that 'Mar' as the name of the region can be traced to the (semi)legendary Seven Sons of Cruithne of the Pictish foundation story, so it's either very old or whoever wrote the foundation story down wanted to claim it as very old.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-14864088145637204542007-03-25T17:33:00.000+01:002007-03-25T17:33:00.000+01:00Great post! It's fascinating to speculate what qua...Great post! It's fascinating to speculate what quality inspired such loyalty on Donald's part. As you've said elsewhere, people tended to either love Edward II or hate him, and Donald was obviously in the first category.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.com