tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post3823023222854903699..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Rioters and Ruffians? The Dunheved Gang (2)Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-19721557693059026382007-08-27T15:46:00.000+01:002007-08-27T15:46:00.000+01:00Liam: I really wish I knew what their objectives w...Liam: I really wish I knew what their objectives were. A restoration of Ed II, or only to keep him hidden somewhere, where they thought he'd be safer? (Perhaps because they knew or suspected that his life was in danger?)<BR/><BR/>And I really don't get why some of the gang members joined, when they don't seem to have been close to Ed II at all, and could probably have gained favour with Isa and Mortimer. Hmmm...people's motivations can really be puzzling and inexplicable, can't they?? ;)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-46271343499488684902007-08-27T13:39:00.000+01:002007-08-27T13:39:00.000+01:00Well done on the amazing research Alianore! One th...Well done on the amazing research Alianore! One thing I don't understand is their ultimate objective - what exactly did they hope to achieve? Overthrowing the entire establishment and engineering a full restoration of Edward II to the throne? I wonder what their plans for Isabella and Mortimer were!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03188874002836550379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-87254577170572433412007-08-17T16:07:00.000+01:002007-08-17T16:07:00.000+01:00Carla: I'm not sure about Odo. I know he was Will...Carla: I'm not sure about Odo. I know he was William's half-brother, and Earl of Kent as well as Bishop of Bayeux - so maybe he claimed he was fighting as an earl, not as a bishop? The mace story sounds good, though - hope it's true!<BR/><BR/>The only fictional treatment of the assault on Berkeley I've read is in Paul Doherty's <I>Death of a King</I>. It's told from the POV of a priest friend of the Dunheveds, and is only a few pages.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-68507210589113660652007-08-17T11:06:00.000+01:002007-08-17T11:06:00.000+01:00Didn't William the Conqueror have a priest half-br...Didn't William the Conqueror have a priest half-brother or cousin called Odo who solved the problem that priests weren't allowed to shed blood by fighting with a mace instead of a blade? (Though you'd think a mace would be pretty splashy - yuk). Or is that an urban myth?<BR/><BR/>Has anyone done it in fiction? I was at one stage thinking the assault on Berkeley might make a good short story, but now I can't get Alan Rickman and Carry On Up the Castle out of my head :-)Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-61904887242142267712007-08-16T15:42:00.000+01:002007-08-16T15:42:00.000+01:00They wanted to be very sure that they'd be on the ...They wanted to be <I>very</I> sure that they'd be on the winning side. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-76738707927198744052007-08-16T14:30:00.000+01:002007-08-16T14:30:00.000+01:00Kate: 'contrariant(s)' is a good word, isn't it? ...Kate: 'contrariant(s)' is a good word, isn't it? In the French documents of the time, it was written <I>contrariaunz</I> - pointless bit of trivia, there. ;)<BR/><BR/>About fighting priests - I think Gabriele's right. I assume the Dunheved clerics must have played an important role in the attack on Berkeley, as they're named in the indictment. And another pointless but amusing bit of trivia: when the parson William de Roscele was accused of assaulting de Portes, no fewer than fifty-nine named men "and others" were accused with him. <I>Sixty</I>?? How on earth did de Portes know who they all were?? Did they helpfully announce themselves to him beforehand and write their names down on a piece of paper? And how did sixty-odd men commit assault on one man anyway?? :-)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-16831863545224371412007-08-16T13:57:00.000+01:002007-08-16T13:57:00.000+01:00In the Song of Roland (late 11th or early 12th cen...In the <I>Song of Roland</I> (late 11th or early 12th century, academics still quarrel about that) we have Turpin, the fighting bishop and he's depicted as a positive character. And think about the whole Crusade ideology. I won't be surprised if traces of that survived and a monk could think it was ok to fight for a good cause.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-54920270218053057352007-08-16T13:42:00.000+01:002007-08-16T13:42:00.000+01:00Great research Alianore! Thanks. What wonderful ...Great research Alianore! Thanks. What wonderful stories. I thank you also for reminding me of the word contrariant. *spelling?*<BR/><BR/>I can't wait to say that to my 11 year old. ie. "oh don't be such a contrariant." It should go down a treat. ;)<BR/><BR/>I love the idea of fighting monks. It seems the complete opposite of whatever vows they may have taken. I guess not in the middle ages though!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-56179674681810504112007-08-16T05:57:00.000+01:002007-08-16T05:57:00.000+01:00Yes, this took rather a long time to research! It ...Yes, this took rather a long time to research! It was enormous fun, though. ;)<BR/><BR/>A novel would be fascinating, especially the bit about the assault on Berkeley. I'm fascinated by Stephen Dunheved, and it would be great to have him as a main character.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-43717103855660062322007-08-15T19:29:00.000+01:002007-08-15T19:29:00.000+01:00Wow, you did some research there. And what a mess ...Wow, you did some research there. And what a mess to sort out. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure there's a novel lurking somewhere in that, with some of the gang leaders - preferably those with the most interesting lives and least well understood motives - as main characters.Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com