tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post4163508658322360047..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: 19 March 1330: Execution of Edmund of Woodstock, Earl of KentKathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-11135086496130492372013-03-26T14:49:32.311+00:002013-03-26T14:49:32.311+00:00Yes indeed.
Perhaps too many a historian have sta...Yes indeed.<br /><br />Perhaps too many a historian have staked their careers on this one so they have to stick with it to the end, instead of saying, like a decent historian would, that hey, we got new evidence which makes the whole story completely different light!<br /><br />But I guess, science is no longer a search for the truth but what appears to be suitable.<br /><br />Perhaps that one nobelist was right some twentyfive years ago when he predicted that societies are going to be like in medieval times: rich live in castles and walled estates, poor trodd the streets of dirty cities and country side, and science becomes more about belief than science.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-20884047840696425402013-03-26T14:15:43.355+00:002013-03-26T14:15:43.355+00:00I so agree, Sami! The refusal by most commentator...I so agree, Sami! The refusal by most commentators to engage properly with the argument and the evidence, and the determination to cling stubbornly to orthodoxy, is becoming baffling. I was looking through Thirteenth Century England X not long ago, which includes an article about Edward II in Italy by Seymour Phillips, and the editors wrote in the preface "It may be too much to hope that his paper will put an end to speculation that the king survived his supposed murder in September 1327...". Honestly!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-3899839418948363772013-03-25T08:38:33.889+00:002013-03-25T08:38:33.889+00:00I find it very curious indeed why it is still the ...I find it very curious indeed why it is still the official canon that Edward II was dead by 1330. <br /><br />I find it even more curious that a man who had known Edward II and had attented his alledged funeral did believe he was still alive and tried to release him from captivity.<br /><br />And even more curious is that this man was executed for his attempt to release a dead man by that dead mans own wife and his buddy.<br /><br />It is very clear that the whole episode was about something else than Edmund of Woodstock being dumb simpleton who wanted to free a corpse.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-48487810954775857652013-03-20T06:29:44.506+00:002013-03-20T06:29:44.506+00:00Possibly, Anonymouse, but we're talking about ...Possibly, Anonymouse, but we're talking about military commanders and their actions during a war, not nominating Edmund or Charles for Mensa membership.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67472425555228687892013-03-19T18:10:21.732+00:002013-03-19T18:10:21.732+00:00But wasn't Charles de Valois himself considere...But wasn't Charles de Valois himself considered "of moderate intelligence"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-19090030203105117132013-03-19T15:54:02.686+00:002013-03-19T15:54:02.686+00:00Thanks, Esther! Edmund was sent to France as an e...Thanks, Esther! Edmund was sent to France as an envoy in 1324 and then to Gascony as Edward II's lieutenant. He certainly wasn't the most competent diplomat, and was out-manoeuvred in Gascony by Charles de Valois (who was his uncle as well as Charles IV's), but this is hardly evidence of stupidity - he only turned 23 in August 1324, so was most likely just inexperienced, perhaps slightly naive in assuming his own uncle wouldn't try to trick him. As Ian Mortimer points out, Edmund's name was used in Isabella and Mortimer's proclamations after they arrived in England in 1326 and was clearly considered an asset. It seems rather to have been Edmund's older brother Thomas, earl of Norfolk, who was considered a liability, as Edward II preferred Kent over him on several occasions. No-one at the time seems to have thought that Edmund was stupid or gullible or unreliable or unstable.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63032306874614499332013-03-19T15:45:47.580+00:002013-03-19T15:45:47.580+00:00Great article. I understand that Edmund of Woodst...Great article. I understand that Edmund of Woodstock held some high office in Gascony, but his work there was subject to criticism. Even if he wasn't the world's most competent official, I still doubt that such an office would be given to someone known to be a gullible fool -- and I doubt that a gullible idiot could hide the fact for any significant length of time.<br /><br />Esther<br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-27620823188918452742013-03-19T13:39:33.253+00:002013-03-19T13:39:33.253+00:00Kasia, yes, you're exactly right about the rel...Kasia, yes, you're exactly right about the relationships! :-)<br /><br />I absolutely agree - I just don't see how Edmund's plot and the reaction to it makes sense unless Edward II was still alive.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-27585695342733088042013-03-19T13:36:19.451+00:002013-03-19T13:36:19.451+00:00I didn't know that the Fair Maid of Kent was E...I didn't know that the Fair Maid of Kent was Edward II's- correct me if I'm wrong- half-niece. It means that she was Edward III's half-cousin and that she was closely related to her own husband. Hope I haven't mixed it all:-)<br /><br />I also didn't know that Edmund was so young at the time of his death. He was the same age as the Young Henry.<br /><br />Edmund and all his fellow conspirators must have been certain that Edward was still alive and I too believe he was. There's no other way of interpreting the events of 1330.Katarzyna Ogrodnik-Fujcikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415905019122111675noreply@blogger.com