tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post6217219268802246294..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: Roger Mortimer Escapes From The Tower, 1323Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-45957113003380009482022-11-19T17:00:05.907+00:002022-11-19T17:00:05.907+00:00I am also a descendant of Roger Mortimer and a Tru...I am also a descendant of Roger Mortimer and a Trustee of the Mortimer History Society. We are collecting genealogical information and would love to hear from anyone who has Mortimer Ancestry. We are also holding an event at the Tower of London to celebrate the 700th anniversary of Roger Mortimer’s escape. You might like to join us!kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10639552114797239228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-38620285485429161422022-06-12T21:12:13.042+01:002022-06-12T21:12:13.042+01:00I’m a descendant of Roger Mortimer. I’m fascinated...I’m a descendant of Roger Mortimer. I’m fascinated with the history I am reading about him and the Mortimer family. Im trying to contact the Tower of London to arrange a appointment to gain more information Mark Mortimernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-17991913100284750182020-12-01T07:07:52.537+00:002020-12-01T07:07:52.537+00:00Thank you, Carl!Thank you, Carl!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-30386199543072412792020-12-01T04:13:27.050+00:002020-12-01T04:13:27.050+00:00After researching what sedative would have been us...After researching what sedative would have been used I really do think it would of been 1 called “great rest” which consisted of opium mandrake and henbane. I hope this helps. Carl Pearson from Rugby WARWICKSHIRE Carl pearson Rugbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03404068697753761138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-64483059273192084352020-12-01T04:13:21.401+00:002020-12-01T04:13:21.401+00:00After researching what sedative would have been us...After researching what sedative would have been used I really do think it would of been 1 called “great rest” which consisted of opium mandrake and henbane. I hope this helps. Carl Pearson from Rugby WARWICKSHIRE Carl pearson Rugbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03404068697753761138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-21391182030811724452013-09-17T20:55:48.068+01:002013-09-17T20:55:48.068+01:00Roger was shut up in his cell with heavily padlock...Roger was shut up in his cell with heavily padlocked door. D'Alspaye was the catalist who got help from the LOndon merchants and set up a help group outside the Tower to cross the river and get away very quickly. I am surprised that Edward2nd accepted Segrave's story; that he knew nothing about the escape and was drugged too but was he? Segrave's family was important in military terms during the last campaigns to Scotland. One of the great siege engines was called Segrave. When I first read this tale as a teenager living in the village I thought Segrave must have known and agreed to stay behind may be to allow the scent to go cold? Was his early death a result of this?Doreen Agutternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-36284082587214513012013-09-17T20:49:00.325+01:002013-09-17T20:49:00.325+01:00I have long known that Mortimer was helped by Gera...I have long known that Mortimer was helped by Gerard D'Alspaye which is the former name for the village of Meriden, West Midlands of which I am the published historian. Stephen Segrave was one of the major landowners in the village too which is how I assume Gerard got his post as deputy lieutenant. Assisteing Gerard was John Wyard a man at arms. Can anyone tell me the link between this Wyard and another John Wyard died 1404 who is commemorated in Meriden church and quite possibly his grandson. Why would Gerard help Mortimer? How did they know each other? D'Alspaye was a member of the Warwickshire gentry, quite insignificant in fact. I can see how Wyartd knew Mrortimer as his own land was held of one of Roger's cousins another Roger Mortimer.Doreen Agutternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-53658146218641170672013-08-12T08:45:36.907+01:002013-08-12T08:45:36.907+01:00Great stuff once again! I bet when Edward heard of...Great stuff once again! I bet when Edward heard of this he was, to say the least, fuming on all cylinders. But once again, despite what has been claimed, he did not act as harsh as he could have done. Some other ruler might have let some heads roll after this one.Sami Parkkonennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-24794378802503488272013-08-09T19:13:23.618+01:002013-08-09T19:13:23.618+01:00Jerry Bennett's observations are excellent and...Jerry Bennett's observations are excellent and worthy of serious pondering. Sorry, no more to add at this point.Bryan Dunleavyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550652628913169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-39820603493975680882013-08-08T18:52:51.075+01:002013-08-08T18:52:51.075+01:00Brilliant, thanks for the info, Carla!Brilliant, thanks for the info, Carla!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-44597425101638513632013-08-08T18:38:23.780+01:002013-08-08T18:38:23.780+01:00There was a drink called 'dwale' in mediev...There was a drink called 'dwale' in medieval medicine, which was used as a general anaesthetic for surgery, 'to make a man sleep while men cut him'. The ingredients vary but involved things like hemlock, henbane and opium. <br />My money would be on that.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-15295478701108206082013-08-08T07:11:15.030+01:002013-08-08T07:11:15.030+01:00Very enjoyable read. I find it interesting to com...Very enjoyable read. I find it interesting to come across someone who likes the Plantagenets. I've generally found them to be a nasty lot, though they are apparently ancestors. I'm going to enjoy reading your blogs. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-42077084967767591042013-08-06T17:39:15.928+01:002013-08-06T17:39:15.928+01:00Jerry, many thanks yet again for such a fantastic ...Jerry, many thanks yet again for such a fantastic and thought-provoking comment! Have just come in, and will read your comment and ponder your thoughts as soon as possible ;)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-77651888528367027302013-08-06T15:35:18.358+01:002013-08-06T15:35:18.358+01:00Thanks again for a very interesting post. Can I ma...Thanks again for a very interesting post. Can I make some observations on this.<br /><br />1. Edward decided to pardon the Mortimers on July 22nd, before the judges in London had passed sentence. Could this have been a deliberate decision on Edward's part, based on the realisation that he might just need Roger Mortimer's expertise as a soldier in the future. <br /><br />The Scots had invaded England on July 1st, with Robert Bruce riding down the west coast via Egremont and Furness Abbey, while Douglas and Moray led a second army roughly down the line of the modern M6, with the two re-uniting at Lancaster. They continued to push another 40 miles south, almost as far as Wigan, before turning back, but on the 22nd they were still around Carlisle, destroying crops and burning out the area before crossing back into Scotland on the 24th. (Dates all taken from Colm McNamee, "The Wars of the Bruces"). If Edward's commanders, mustering their army less than 50 miles away at either York or Newcastle, could not intercept them in that 24 day period, that must have set Edward to wondering if Roger Mortimer could not have done better. He had a pretty decent track record for fighting the Scots in Ireland.<br /><br />2. The Mortimer's were judged by citizens of London. Would that count as being judged by their peers, and did this play on Edward's conscience?<br /><br />3. The escape involved Gerard Alspaye and three London citizens at least, and possibly more. How long would it have taken to plan? My guess would be at least a week, possibly longer, given that they had to acquire a boat and also arrange their own escapes beyond London. Could Alspaye have drugged the entire garrison of the tower, or did he have other accomplices on the inside, particularly within the kitchens? The whole thing appears to have been very well organised, which suggests a small, tight-knit team who managed to keep the enterprise secret from both servants and families. For this reason alone, I do not think Isabella was involved, as the team would have started to become unwieldy, and too many people might have known in advance. A couple of careless words, and the plan would have been discovered.<br /><br />4. Edward may not have changed his mind about executing Roger Mortimer, but would Mortimer have any confidence in that. He must have had the execution of Llywellyn Bryn at the back of his mind, even though Bryn had his sentence reduced to life imprisonment. Ian Mortimer lays the guilt of Bryn's execution on Hugh Despenser, and if that was so, then Mortimer could not have been too confident of his own survival.<br /><br />5. Why didn't he take his uncle with him? Was the older man already too ill?<br /><br />Sorry Kathryn, it's all supposition again with precious little fact. But when I read articles like yours, I can't help but try to get inside the minds of both Edward and Roger Mortimer.Jerry Bennettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-65951364935358649442013-08-05T11:55:24.752+01:002013-08-05T11:55:24.752+01:00His wife was being held under house arrest (with e...His wife was being held under house arrest (with eight servants) at the time of his escape, and it seems that three of his four sons were too (I'm not totally sure, though). It was Roger's escape which prompted a renewed onslaught against his family a few months later. It's his fleeing the country that endangered his family far more than they had been while he was in prison, which he must have guessed would happen. I don't think very much at all of Roger's attitude towards his wife and family after 1322, actually.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-63766359934513844302013-08-05T11:42:57.535+01:002013-08-05T11:42:57.535+01:00The only Mortimer rebellions I know of are in Norm...The only Mortimer rebellions I know of are in Normandy, with William and also during the William Rufus & Robert Curthose conflicts, eventually siding with William Rufus. Other than that they seem to have been fervent royalists!<br /><br />I'm sure you're right and permanent imprisonment was a strong incentive for escape.....who knows, maybe he thought he could help his family more easily from outside a prison rather than in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-22780068049735490542013-08-05T05:28:38.299+01:002013-08-05T05:28:38.299+01:00Thanks, Beata! I don't know the history of th...Thanks, Beata! I don't know the history of the Mortimers very well, but don't know offhand of any other royal rebellions they took part in.<br /><br />I'm sure that the idea of permanent imprisonment was ample motivation for Roger to escape. Other Contrariants imprisoned by Edward II also escaped, only they weren't as influential and important so no-one dreamed up a story of impending execution to explain their escapes.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-86981077027595286002013-08-04T23:22:09.310+01:002013-08-04T23:22:09.310+01:00This is a very interesting post and a great accoun...This is a very interesting post and a great account of the escape. A wonderful deed of derring-do, almost like a Special OPs deed or something from an action movie.<br />I'm sure you'e right that it was Gerald d'Alspaye who procured the drug, whatever it was, it seems the most obvious means for Roger to acquire it. <br />Just a thought - it must have been psychologically difficult for Roger to join a rebellion as the Mortimers had been staunch supporters of various kings for a long time, Edward & Henry III at Evesham and John at Runnymede. I can't find any instances of Mortimers rebelling aside from some ancestors in Normandy before 1066? <br /> <br />Thank you for another fascinating blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67134648958540125272013-08-04T20:56:10.013+01:002013-08-04T20:56:10.013+01:00Very interesting post - I go with the suggestion ...Very interesting post - I go with the suggestion that Gerald d'Alspaye procured the drug as it makes most sense to me. Great deed of derring-do however. It is really like something one would read in an adventue story or see in an action movie!<br />I believe though that something must have sparked Roger's escape - or was it just purely fortuitous that someone procured the drug and he decided to go - but I don't believe that really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-61750465037068298442013-08-04T20:12:46.084+01:002013-08-04T20:12:46.084+01:00Thanks, Anerje! I still giggle sometimes at the t...Thanks, Anerje! I still giggle sometimes at the thought of those novels that have Isabella and Roger having hot sex in his cell without anyone ever noticing or suspecting, because she has a Magic Invisibility Hood. :-D<br /><br />Valerian's a good suggestion! Plenty of it mixed with wine would surely have done the job.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-58685235291203370362013-08-04T20:07:37.126+01:002013-08-04T20:07:37.126+01:00I feel for you - losing your post!
Roger's ...I feel for you - losing your post! <br /><br />Roger's escape - a staple for pro-Isabella novels - and even crops up in the odd history book - Isabella in the Tower at the same time, they become lovers, she helps him escape, etc, etc, etc. Tsk, tsk!<br /><br />Maybe the drug was something like the Valerian herb, which with wine just put them in a drunken stupor?Anerjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16305237339979790391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-39843129385766538172013-08-04T19:44:53.096+01:002013-08-04T19:44:53.096+01:00Hi Esther, thanks! Perhaps it was the deputy cons...Hi Esther, thanks! Perhaps it was the deputy constable Alspaye who procured the sedatives and fed them to his colleagues. When I first wrote the post it seemed to me that Roger and his guards were fraternising and drinking wine together, but now I'm not sure - if Alspaye was involved he might have been drinking with his colleagues and let Roger out later.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-37153942256274043242013-08-04T19:38:55.610+01:002013-08-04T19:38:55.610+01:00Great post ... would be interesting how Roger mana...Great post ... would be interesting how Roger managed the drugging. Perhaps, an ally with access to the guards' food or drink? or, if it was anything like Tudor times, perhaps Roger had some of his own food ... which he could have drugged and then offered to the guards?<br /><br />EstherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67242180988361902592013-08-04T18:20:45.052+01:002013-08-04T18:20:45.052+01:00Sonetka, I wonder if Roger was the first one to do...Sonetka, I wonder if Roger was the first one to do it? Well ahead of the cliché crowd, our Roger. :) I wish I knew what the sedatives were - that this had been recorded somewhere!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-55498809467849548452013-08-04T18:19:14.014+01:002013-08-04T18:19:14.014+01:00What do you know, the "drugging the guards...What do you know, the "drugging the guards' wine" trick actually happened in real life! I thought it was a handy staple of adventure novels but never knew of anyone who'd done it in real life and actually gotten away with it. I wonder what kind of sedatives he used -- opium, possibly? Sonetkahttp://anneboleynnovels.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com