tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post7429445786059123310..comments2024-03-14T05:56:44.390+00:00Comments on Edward II: The Conspiracy of the Earl of Kent, 1330 (3)Kathryn Warnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-84481751366297349742007-12-09T09:25:00.000+00:002007-12-09T09:25:00.000+00:00LOL!LOL!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-46414969507350145442007-12-09T08:14:00.000+00:002007-12-09T08:14:00.000+00:00No, it was just a joke! People didn't keep diarie...No, it was just a joke! People didn't keep diaries in the early 14th century (how inconsiderate!)Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-2819638047119836942007-12-08T17:14:00.000+00:002007-12-08T17:14:00.000+00:00The diary of John Pecche? OMG, when and how was it...The diary of John Pecche? OMG, when and how was it discovered? What else does he say?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-52143447074886758062007-12-08T14:38:00.000+00:002007-12-08T14:38:00.000+00:00I love the idea of Edward II and his beefy Italian...I love the idea of Edward II and his beefy Italian boyfriend.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-64876616159437316182007-12-08T09:53:00.000+00:002007-12-08T09:53:00.000+00:00Gabriele: LOL! Ed III to his mother: "If you don'...Gabriele: LOL! Ed III to his mother: "If you don't behave, I'll bring dad back from Italy with his beefy Italian boyfriend." *Giggles*<BR/><BR/>Paul: good point. The two next kings of England who were deposed, Richard II and Henry VI, were deposed by cousins and not succeeded by their sons, so the Ed II/Ed III situation is very different. I can't imagine that anyone would have wanted a civil war between father and son, least of all the two men themselves.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-20834575597024981032007-12-07T19:03:00.000+00:002007-12-07T19:03:00.000+00:00Hehe, maybe Ed III knew about the whole thing and ...Hehe, maybe Ed III knew about the whole thing and his threat to Izzy was, "if you don't behave and start plotting to sneak those fiefs from their owners again, I'll bring daddy back from Italy. Together with Giuseppe.' :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-12056073661346290792007-12-07T18:40:00.000+00:002007-12-07T18:40:00.000+00:00I thought about Spain as a possible destination to...I thought about Spain as a possible destination too, nothing would have competed with France at that time though. You'd be a brave monarch taking Ed II under your wing, especially with his past military record. <BR/><BR/>I can see a real light at the end of the tunnel in getting back your crown and imprisoning/executing Isabella and Mortimer. However, after 1330 the person in charge that he would've been ousting was his son. Maybe that's another reason to leave well enough alone? I can't imagine people were very keen to fight in a Civil War for Ed II against the new King.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59946965779340014582007-12-07T18:17:00.000+00:002007-12-07T18:17:00.000+00:00The Fieschi letter, written in the late 1330s, say...The Fieschi letter, written in the late 1330s, says that after Ed II left Corfe, after Kent's execution, he travelled to Ireland, with a 'keeper' (more on him in next post). After Roger Mortimer's downfall, he left there and travelled through France, where he spent 15 days with the Pope in Avignon. He then travelled via Brabant (where his sister was alive till 1333 or later) and Cologne to Italy.<BR/><BR/>Wonder if the conspirators of 1330 considered Castile as a possible safe place for Ed II to be given refuge? It was his mother's homeland, and the king was his cousin. Or maybe even Portugal, where the king was another cousin of his, or Aragon...<BR/><BR/>Thanks for all the ideas, both of you!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-50646127806800901662007-12-07T17:54:00.000+00:002007-12-07T17:54:00.000+00:00"Without the benefit of being in a neighbouring co..."Without the benefit of being in a neighbouring country maybe once he got there it wasn't so easy to get back"<BR/>Good point. Maybe the first stage of the plot, whatever it was, happened and then it ran out of steam and whatever was supposed to happen next never did. This happens in business and politics all the time :-) <BR/><BR/>Net effect may have been to leave Edward II in safe obscurity in Italy as long as he stayed anonymous. Perhaps he quite liked this state of affairs and wasn't overly inclined to try and start up another plot to get his kingdom back. Or perhaps he simply didn't have any levers to pull, even if he did want to be king again. Or perhaps the rest of the plot was going to happen "manana" and Edward II hung around waiting - and waiting - and waiting -Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-73401711290489955672007-12-07T17:40:00.000+00:002007-12-07T17:40:00.000+00:00I'm sure leaving the country would be his plan. B...I'm sure leaving the country would be his plan. But where would he go? He didn't have the option of going to Daddy in the strongest, most powerful country next door to build support. France and Scotland are out but the Pope had offered his aid so maybe Italy was the logical place for him to end up. <BR/><BR/>Without the benefit of being in a neighbouring country maybe once he got there it wasn't so easy to get back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-61221906405805156082007-12-07T17:30:00.000+00:002007-12-07T17:30:00.000+00:00Thanks to Paul for letting me quote from a message...Thanks to Paul for letting me quote from a message he sent me - from the exciting new discovery of the diary of Sir John Pecche, constable of Corfe Castle:<BR/><BR/>"October 1st, new prisoner arrived late last night (without the proper paperwork damn it). a little bedraggled but bigger than your normal bloke, very regal bearing. will talk to him tomorrow."Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-67410971100597877702007-12-07T17:04:00.000+00:002007-12-07T17:04:00.000+00:00Thanks, Carla (and Paul), that's a great idea. *S...Thanks, Carla (and Paul), that's a great idea. *Starts furiously thinking about the whole situation*.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-27649330046767576392007-12-07T16:06:00.000+00:002007-12-07T16:06:00.000+00:00Good point Carla. I would've thought that whateve...Good point Carla. I would've thought that whatever they were planning to do the first item on the agenda was getting out of prison and away from the people in power who had put him there. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure most, if not all of those who helped him would've done so thinking they would be helping the rightful (and more importantly future) king.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-14840004065738180762007-12-07T14:34:00.000+00:002007-12-07T14:34:00.000+00:00Maybe the idea was that Edward II would go abroad ...Maybe the idea was that Edward II would go abroad temporarily for safety, and then a settlement could be reached with Mortimer/Isabella/Edward III with the threat of putting Edward II back on the throne if they wouldn't play ball? It's a much stronger negotiating position if you have an alternative king than if you haven't. One could imagine a deal in which Edward II voluntarily abdicated in favour of Edward III in exchange for a substantial financial settlement (from which he could reward his supporters) and a regency council to replace Isabella and Mortimer (on which some of the supporters might have expected to serve or have influence). Something like that might have looked like a prospect worth taking some risks for, maybe?Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-77552663297980106982007-12-06T18:04:00.000+00:002007-12-06T18:04:00.000+00:00Well, there's one way out - invent the stuff the c...Well, there's one way out - invent the stuff the chronicles and letters leave out, and make it a story. :)<BR/><BR/>Verification word: pussymrov<BR/><BR/>Meow. :)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-72370372154547374402007-12-06T17:53:00.000+00:002007-12-06T17:53:00.000+00:00That's a really interesting question, Gabriele, an...That's a really interesting question, Gabriele, and I wish I had an answer. Wonder how they thought Ed would reward them for taking such a huge risk when he wasn't going to be king again? (Unless some of them assumed he would be?) Seems like an emormous risk to take just for Ed II to merrily toddle off abroad.<BR/><BR/>Really, really wish I knew more about all this. What were all the men's roles in the plot, what were their aims in helping Ed, how were they implicated? Feel like I'm flailing around in the dark.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19545049.post-59528148421569614012007-12-06T15:51:00.000+00:002007-12-06T15:51:00.000+00:00This looks like a pretty major conspiracy, not lik...This looks like a pretty major conspiracy, not like a hedge knight adventure of a deluded Kent. <BR/><BR/>What I find even stranger is that they didn't seem to want to put Ed back on the throne. One could imagine that they had enough of Izzy and Mort by then, but to get Ed to Italy and into the arms of Giuseppe or Giacomo would not gain them anything. Did they act purely because they liked Ed and wanted to see him happy? I don't think all of them did (Donald of Mar perhaps, and William of Langdon) - most people only take risks if they have a chance to gain something. Like getting rid of Mortimer, and some rewards, preferably in form of land and priviledges. ;)Gabriele Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17205770868139083575noreply@blogger.com