A couple of days ago, my blog was mentioned on the popular Go Fug Yourself website, as part of its weekly Royals Round-Up section: see here. My friends at the Auramala Project in Italy and I are still hoping to find a modern descendant with Edward II's DNA, so that maybe one day we can determine once and for all if Edward really is buried in Gloucester. See also my book Long Live the King: The Mysterious Fate of Edward II for more details, especially Ivan Fowler of the Project's call to action at the end. A modern descendant with Edward II's mitochondrial DNA would have to come from one of his sisters or one of his female ancestors, entirely through the female line, and that's very tricky to find. If you're of English origin you're almost guaranteed to be descended from Edward, but finding an all-female line back to the thirteenth century is really hard. See this post from last year by the Auramala Project...we got so close!
Edward II had five sisters. The fourth, Mary, was a nun and had no children, so she's out. The eldest, Eleanor, had only one daughter, Joan countess of Surrey, who herself had no children, so she's out. The third, Margaret, had only one son, so she's out. That leaves Edward's second and fifth sisters: Joan of Acre, countess of Gloucester (1272-1307) and Elizabeth, countess of Hereford (1282-1316), who both had daughters who had daughters who had daughters. I found a promising line from Joan of Acre's third daughter Elizabeth de Clare and her daughter Isabella de Verdon, which resulted in the post by the Auramala Project linked above, as a professional genealogist took over. If you know of any other female lines from either of these two women, please get in touch! You can either leave a comment here, or at the Auramala Project, or email me at: edwardofcaernarfon(at)yahoo.com.
Edward II's mother Eleanor of Castile (c. 1241-90) had no sisters of the full blood from the same mother, so there are no possible lines there. Eleanor's mother Joan of Ponthieu, or Jeanne de Dammartin as she's sometimes called, had three younger sisters, so there may be some descendants there, though I didn't get very far when I tried to look into it a while ago (maybe you'll have more luck?). Joan's mother was Marie of Ponthieu (no sisters), whose mother was Alais of France (no sisters of the full blood who had descendants), whose mother was Constance of Castile, whose mother was Berenguela of Barcelona, whose mother was Dulcia of Provence, whose mother was Gerberga of Provence, and so on. This is the line of Edward II's maternal ancestors, who carried his mitochondrial DNA down the female line. Are there any female lines of descent from any of these women? Can you help?
Edward II had five sisters. The fourth, Mary, was a nun and had no children, so she's out. The eldest, Eleanor, had only one daughter, Joan countess of Surrey, who herself had no children, so she's out. The third, Margaret, had only one son, so she's out. That leaves Edward's second and fifth sisters: Joan of Acre, countess of Gloucester (1272-1307) and Elizabeth, countess of Hereford (1282-1316), who both had daughters who had daughters who had daughters. I found a promising line from Joan of Acre's third daughter Elizabeth de Clare and her daughter Isabella de Verdon, which resulted in the post by the Auramala Project linked above, as a professional genealogist took over. If you know of any other female lines from either of these two women, please get in touch! You can either leave a comment here, or at the Auramala Project, or email me at: edwardofcaernarfon(at)yahoo.com.
Edward II's mother Eleanor of Castile (c. 1241-90) had no sisters of the full blood from the same mother, so there are no possible lines there. Eleanor's mother Joan of Ponthieu, or Jeanne de Dammartin as she's sometimes called, had three younger sisters, so there may be some descendants there, though I didn't get very far when I tried to look into it a while ago (maybe you'll have more luck?). Joan's mother was Marie of Ponthieu (no sisters), whose mother was Alais of France (no sisters of the full blood who had descendants), whose mother was Constance of Castile, whose mother was Berenguela of Barcelona, whose mother was Dulcia of Provence, whose mother was Gerberga of Provence, and so on. This is the line of Edward II's maternal ancestors, who carried his mitochondrial DNA down the female line. Are there any female lines of descent from any of these women? Can you help?
I can trace my mitochondrial DNA to a Margaret Ward b. 1585 in Yorkshire but that's as far as it goes. Oh Well. . . . . .
ReplyDeleteI am a direct descendant of Joan of acre you can contact me at countessoflennox@gmail.con
ReplyDeleteThis would be VERY revealing. We know Richard III's mtDNA and will know Edward V's in a few months time.
ReplyDeleteI may be wrong though.... the pedigree seems to me not credible. Generation 16 and 17 differ 55 years. This seems to me a lot. Or is there a typo? But much worse: Generation 11 and 12 do not seem to be contemporaries. See: "Generation 11" Lucy Eyre (d. Before 1556), married Humphrey Stafford or Eyam
ReplyDeleteGeneration 12) Alice Stafford (1610-1700), married Anthony Savage (1605-1695) "Or is there a typo? Do the Nunn sisters have children?
Seba Dera
I suppose I'll have even more DNA testing done, even genebase won't allow me to compare my DNA to famous ancestors, it's also asking for mitochondrial DNA...
ReplyDeleteI have done the test on ancestry.com, and autosomal and paternal tests done on genebase.com
Joan of Acre was my 21 st great Grandmother, through Margaret de Clare and Margaret de Audeley , sadly not in a straight female line. her Brother Edward II IS ALSO MY 20TH great grandfather (I am also related to every royal house,) this of course is only through my fathers paternal line. I find all of this fascinating as I do research every day and keep adding to my tree, and have been tested on 7 dna sites. there are a good amount of descendants the issue is never in a complete direct line of ydna or mtdna.
ReplyDeleteI have 8.5 % DNA of Countess Joan of Acre. I suppose this freak occurrence is due to the intermarrying with the Terrell line down through time. My 3rd Great Grandfather was Nelson Elisha Lowry who was married to Catherine Terrell, a descendant of William Terrell, Lord of Bruyn from Reading, England. The line then goes to Montacute (Montagu) and then to Plantagenet. Her mother had a very interesting bloodline as did Henry II's spouse Queen Eleanor of Acquitaine. Joan is my 22nd Great Grandmother.
ReplyDeleteI have MtDNA from both Richard III and Edward IV
ReplyDeleteMy CRI genetics test said I was of the same mtdna haplogroup so I'm not sure. Doesn't give raw dna
ReplyDelete